Transcript
Gissele: [00:00:00]
Hello and welcome to the love and compassion podcast with Giselle. We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives in our world. Don’t forget to like subscribe for more amazing content today. We’ll be talking about how mindfulness can actually positively impact a culture.
I’ll be speaking to Ashley Williams voted top 40 under 40 by styled weekly enrichments, magazines, daring women of 2018. Ashley is a certified yoga specialist. A creator of mindfulness plus movement, RVA implementing therapeutic interventions, programs and professional development training that combines social emotional learning, mindfulness and movement.
She’s also founder of bare soul yoga and wellness in Richmond, Virginia, intentionally created to make yoga and wellness accessible to the black community, but welcomes all communities. Please join me in welcoming [00:01:00] Ashley. Hi, Ashley. Hi
Ashley: Giselle. How are you? I am well. it’s, it’s, So beautiful outside.
I’ve been like bird watching as I like move from one place to the next and like all the different environments So I’m excited to like sit down in this moment and just take in taking this conversation and the house that I’m sitting in.
Gissele: Beautiful, beautiful.
And I think that goes to show like about the embodiment. So you not only teach the stuff you live it, right? Can you tell the audience a little bit about how it is that you got started in this work?
Ashley: Yeah. So my mindfulness journey, or I would dare to say, my, my love for being present in the moment and all the ways that one may maybe lead to it started for me in 2000 and 12, when I.
Really just kind of within a big transition of my life from, you know, collegiate life [00:02:00] to work, professional work life to moving new locations and really experiencing a lot of the transitions and the feelings and the sensations that came with transition. So moving in the ebbs and flows of daily life, moving in and out of feelings of like anxiousness, but then also moving in and out of feelings of connection and disconnection.
And I ended up having. A loss that of one of my aunts that was really dear to me. And on top of all of the sensations that were coming from the transitions that was another transition that really that created a lot of disconnection and a lot of heavy emotion. And so I found myself first at a yoga studio and in a class and moving my body.
And I just remember feeling that. Moment of connection with all of the sensations that I was experiencing. So all of the. The, the pain that I was experiencing, the sorrow, [00:03:00] a lot of the loss and the grief that I was experiencing I had a moment to actually feel it because for a moment I had withdrawn from it.
And that was also not a good feeling. And there was something about being present in the moment with my body. With my mind with the emotions of my heart that kept me coming back and from then it went from, you know, that, that yoga asana, that movement based practice to really diving deep into the study and the science of mindfulness.
And understanding, you know, MBSR, so Mindful Based Stress Reduction, and literally practicing it every day in my world. From the brushing of my teeth to the sipping of my coffee to mindful communication when I was around others. And then from there, honestly, it’s just really snowballed into.
Wanting to know more and getting curious about myself through the practices, wanting to dive deep and study the practices, wanting to then [00:04:00] share the practices and also not just, you know, the formal practices, but then also the benefits of, of being in relationship with these, like with the science, but then with this also way of living in a way that had been benefiting me so much.
Gissele: Yes. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think being present with our difficult emotions is so important for healing, right? But often we don’t do it because it feels so uncomfortable. What helped you get through some of those uncomfortable feelings?
Ashley: Yeah, the practice itself, you know, so the definition that I, when people are like, what’s mindfulness or, you know how do you practice it?
And, you know, the simple definition that I always land on is, you know, it’s simply paying attention to the moment that’s at hand. It’s the paying attention up to the presence and with an attitude of compassion, with an attitude. Of non judgment with an [00:05:00] attitude of acceptance and acknowledgment. And so that active practice of really checking in with myself, like, what’s going on with my body right now?
You know, how. How’s it feeling in this moment? How’s it responding to my environment? What’s happening in my environment, my environment right now? Like who’s, who’s around me? What do I see? You know how does what I see affect me? What do I hear? How is my body responding to that? And you know, there’s those moments of check in to just like pay attention that have really allowed me to move through uncomfortable moments.
Specifically, when you bring in like the non judgment and like the acceptance of them. I always like to say that, you know, stress, which can be synonymous with tension or pressure or disconnection disease, like that’s the gray matter between like what one may think should [00:06:00] be happening versus like reality.
So like what is actually happening. And so I have found that my most uncomfortable. Moments are moments in which my mind has conceived or thought something completely different should be happening than what’s actually happening in reality. that point of awareness for me has been a game changer to how I get through them because then I can ask myself the question, like, okay, what am I trying to change about this moment?
Or like, what part of this moment don’t I want to feel right now? Because I feel like I should feel completely different. And that can even be with like pleasant emotions, you know, like in moments of celebration, it’s like, Oh my gosh, like, It’s sometimes uncomfortable if, you know, a lot of tensions on you and you’re celebrating and you’re like, oh, I just want to go sit in the background, right?
That’s very much uncomfortable. And so being in the practice of acceptance without any judgment has been a game [00:07:00] changer and, and returning back and back to it over and over again. And in the moments when I feel uncomfortable,
Gissele: I love that and I completely resonated with your answer. We call it allowance.
Like can we just allow anything that is experiencing in the moment? And it occurred to me as you were talking that I felt having that presence with yourself, like that having showing up for yourself in a way that honors every aspect of yourself, I think leads to extraordinary things because you’re, you’re being there for yourself.
It’s a, it’s a form of love. It’s a form of being fully present with the being that you are in everything that you’re experiencing. And so I really felt that as you were talking. So I thank you for that.
Ashley: Yeah, of course. One of my values has been like maintain constant love. It’s it’s It’s an ode to my aunt’s life.
And you know, what, what started me on the journey. And so I always have to ask, like, how can I show myself the most love? How can I be constant in love? How can I allow what’s [00:08:00] happening and still be in in a space of love, whether it’s pleasant or unpleasant, and then also extending that to those. Both people and places and people around me.
So love is definitely at the root and at the core of even why I continue to stay in this practice of being present.
Gissele: Yeah. I, I completely agree. You know, I, I remember at one point in my journey, I remember asking myself, can I love everything in everyone? Can I, can I love everything that I’m experiencing?
Can I find love for it? And can I find love in that, that source or that, that God in other people? And sometimes it’s a struggle, but there’s, there’s a willingness and that really is what keeps me moving forward and trying to understand the whole concept of love. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about your involvement with the mindfulness movement in the school system?
Can you talk a little bit about how you got started in some of the, maybe some of the outcomes [00:09:00] you might’ve seen in terms of mindfulness in the schools? .
Ashley: Yeah. I think one thing’s important is to as I start out really going back to that definition of, you know, mindfulness being present in the moment, right?
And, and bringing in compassion, right? Mm-Hmm. and bringing in non-judgment and acceptance and have you mentioned allowance. And so that’s really been the premise of a lot of my work when it comes into the schools. And so I began. And at the very early of my career, when I was working on a lot of mental health and behavioral health settings with youth and young adults, and at the time when I was finding the practice, I was also working with other individuals that.
We’re experiencing varying situations in their environments might have also experienced a lot of of the symptoms that come from having some type of mental health diagnoses or behavioral health change. And so when we think about being present right with those that can be a challenge depending on what it is and the supports [00:10:00] in which one have.
And so when I was going through my own transition and found the practice. I got really curious about what it looks like to then teach and educate and create space to be in some of the practices that I was learning within the environments that I was working in. So it kind of happened very much at the same time of my own self discovery and my own journey.
And so I was really curious about more specific how to use these practices and environments that we know that there have been experiences that have led to trauma. And so went in, did a lot of studying just around, like diving deep into trauma, the effects of what trauma looks like in the body, the effects of what trauma might look like in environments, the responses that someone that might have experienced in the past.
Certain types of trauma from from grief and loss from neglect or abuse from even like poverty and low socioeconomic statuses and the facts that, [00:11:00] you know, our social determinants really have in our health. And so as I studied those, I, you know, the one thing that really that really lit me up and ignited me to really want to advocate for these practices within institutions like schools and hospitals or youth and adult programs were the simple fact that a lot of the solutions were met with pharmaceuticals.
And you know, one thing that I think our practice, if we dive really deep into it, being mindful is all about knowing who we are. And there are certain things that I think can also be barriers to that. There’s some things that can be supplemented, that can supplement our identity and our experience.
And there’s some things that can actually be barriers and not allow us to really even connect. And so I got really curious of. Two things what it looks like to teach these skills that in which we hold that we can learn as humans as an individuals and we can strengthen them and they come from within with practice.
And it invites us to return back to ourselves, right? And [00:12:00] so versus you know, what does it look like to, to rely or to be in usage of a substance, whether it’s a pharmaceutical, or maybe even another another substance or drug. And so. Got really curious about that and wanted to figure out ways to really introduce it.
And so I started practicing in the environments that I worked with and using group classes and, you know, small, like small tutorials teaching people about like their senses. But I think the one thing that really kind of ignited me was the way that there was also a curiosity from other people, right, like more specifically for my experiences, you know, as a black woman working in predominantly black environments are predominantly like environments initially starting out at the very beginning, you might care about 10 years ago, but working in environments in which.
Proximity to education around holistic practices or contemplative practices. We’re not ones that were at the forefront, right? So creating space to reduce that disparity of education [00:13:00] around mindfulness or contemplative practices really lit me up. And so, started teaching it within the institutions that I was working within.
And really at that time, really trying to advocate for it, right? So in 2012 and 2013 I guess it’s like 12 or 13 years ago, you know, there wasn’t much high level. Mindfulness practices specifically within our school systems, within our juvenile correctional centers,
you might see you know, you might see more yogic philosophy practices and of course we pull our mindful practices, you know, in relationship to those, but we didn’t see kind of like a holistic model of, you know, You know, all the different ways in which mindfulness could be shared or all the different ways in which healing practices could be offered and utilized to address some of the mental behavioral health challenges that both our youth and our adults, whether they were being provided direct care or they were individuals offering the direct care.[00:14:00]
So like employees or maybe even the leaders or the administrators that were than creating the spaces. For direct care to happen by caregivers and or learn professionals. And so at that time, I did a lot of power points. And I did a lot of requesting presentations. I also did a lot of like work and saying, Hey, like, just let me show you that this works.
And so doing it at no cost and really meaning to make sure that it was accessible. And then over the years. I think what the practice does to is it works, it shows up. Right. So there’s so much power in the practice and people see some of the outcomes as an increased focus or a balanced A balance and emotion or regulated opportunity or improvement in self regulation within environments.
Clearer communication is one that I think comes up because, you know, once [00:15:00] again, the more that you know how to express what’s happening and your bodily sensations are with your mood. There’s an increase in improved relationships and healthy relationships because there’s deeper connection and ability to, to express whether it’s creatively, verbally, non verbally.
And so these are some of the things that we really started to see. And I can’t because my practice did start a lot with like yoga asana. I think one thing that’s important is that was an inlet for. Getting present with the body,
Gissele: you know,
Ashley: and so letting people really kind of share how they found more ease and their body.
They found more mobility and spaciousness and, you know, their shoulders. They found a deeper breath and a longer exhale, which helps regulate the parasympathetic nervous system and decreased cortisol level. So There’s so many holistic factors that I think that we need to bring high level to whether we are, [00:16:00] regardless of what method we might be using to create more presence in our moment.
Gissele: Yeah. Thank you. You said so many important things. The 1st, I’m going to focus on is the, it’s the over medication of children I was working in the child protection system and I was in quality assurance. So I used to actually talk to the young people.
And say, how can we improve services? And they would tell me about the medications and they would tell me about how it made them feel and how they didn’t find it helpful. And there was quite a high percentage of kids that were medicated, especially for ADHD.
And I was like, what’s happening? And in the end it ended up being that, People with trauma, like, it can look like ADHD because there’s so many triggers. And so I don’t know if that’s an effective way to manage people that have experienced trauma. And one of the things I loved about what you said is like
once we become aware of what people’s histories are, their experiences are, will [00:17:00] become kinder, more loving, more accepting and allowing of their behavior and get more curious about it than saying, well, there’s something wrong with you. Here you go. The other thing that I felt that was really important and maybe we could dive a little bit deeper on is the.
The need for acceptance of a specific program at all levels, right? So if you’re going to the school, it’s not just the kids that need the support. It’s the teachers and the principals. how does that help sort of a program become more embedded within a system?
Ashley: Yeah, I think that’s key. Specifically in the school environment that I work in, but I see it replicated in a lot of the school systems is that a lot of the teachers also attended the same school district, the same school.
And so you, you have. I have very shared lived experiences. I think on the opposite end of that is that, you know, you have some teachers that are within a school or leadership that’s within a school that actually have very different [00:18:00] experience than the students in which they, they have. And so I think the purpose in mentioning that is because lived experiences can be very different.
Right. But the human experience is very similar. And that’s where the curiosity is meant to take place because sometimes those environments in which, you know, there’s similarity and lived experience but there’s a difference in like the age you might see our kids behavior different because it might’ve been something that you experienced or might’ve been something that you actually.
Actually can resonate with or can’t resonate with and if, and if it’s your lived experience, that might not have been a very pleasant one or have been unpleasant, then. That can actually also breed heavy emotional sensation or thought. And so I think 1 thing that has been really important in working in this environment is really understanding the human experiences [00:19:00] of
Both youth and adults and the structure of the school systems when we are introducing these practices that are inviting us into our present moment, meaning they’re inviting us into our emotions. They’re inviting us to our bias. They’re inviting us into the way that certain like the way that certain sensations feel in our body.
And so there’s a, there’s a holistic model that I think needs to be. Kind of address and how we either deliver implement or even review what it looks like to create like a mindful school environment when we’re centering the well being because when we work with the school and this is one thing that I found in my experience is that we would work with our youth and we would have after school programming programming within the classroom.
Sure. I’m teaching various skills that enhanced creative expression that, you know invited in more self regulation invited in certain certain methods that helped communicate both verbally and non verbally in a mindful [00:20:00] way. And. We would teach them, we would have this classroom, we would have this setting, and then they would go into another setting, or they might go home where these practices not, were not necessarily taught.
So rather than creating a culture, right in which it could be practiced or taught, and you’re surrounded by individuals that, you know, have the same characteristics or value systems, we were just building character. And There was nowhere in the culture to then practice the character.
And so for me, it felt like while we were seeing benefits in the moment, which was like kind of like instant gratification, we weren’t creating a system that really invited us to then be in practice, which we know, you know, mindfulness is a practice. Being a compassionate human as a practice, returning back to ourselves as a practice.
It’s not something that you’re going to go into a 30 minute to 45 minute class. It’s taught to you. You get an opportunity to experience it and then you go back out and then you don’t necessarily see it [00:21:00] around you. And so. We felt that it was kind of sometimes doing a disservice in the long run, both for the time in which some of the professionals like the mindful instructors were going in to then offer, but then also a disservice to those that we were then sharing and building relationship with, like our students, because they didn’t, we didn’t offer that long sustainability or long term sustainability there.
And so there’s that. And I think when we think about with the teachers, It kind of goes the same in the same route where if we’re then working specifically with the teachers and then they are then wanting to utilize these within their classrooms, then in the kids don’t know them that quite yet, or they don’t have the capacities and learn in all of their classrooms.
You know, there’s sometimes a disconnect. And so. That is one thing that has been a priority when working within school systems is creating a whole school model where the same information that is shared with the youth is then shared with the [00:22:00] teachers, is shared with administration, and is also shared and goes home to the parents.
Because. It requires practice and community to then really reap the benefits of the, the characteristics that might come from those that are in relationship within a mindfulness practice.
Gissele: Yeah really well said. I completely agree with your perspective because what you’re trying to create is, is that culture is that culture of mindfulness, the culture of compassion is the, is the current program that you are involved in terms of the schools embedded within the schools, or is it something that is like project based
Ashley: Yeah, there’s a couple of different ways that I think that I could really answer that question because one of the biggest challenge and when you talk about funding has been the funding of sustainable work. I think that from an institutional side, the benefits of that the practices offer could be hugely impactful.
Once again, for our whole [00:23:00] school up from the students all the way up to there, our leadership administration. Dive deep into the community because there’s such a, there’s such a. Direct. Relationship between what happens in the school and what happens in the community. And so we know on paper, if there was consistent practice than that.
An engagement and a focus that there could be huge benefits and huge impact on not just the lives of our students, but then the relationships that then create these ecosystems. So there’s that. And when it comes to, I think the funding for it, you know funding a lot of times comes from research funding.
A lot of times comes from data that has occurred. And so historically, Mindfulness is really just, I mean, like I said, when I first started there were on my hand, like you could count on your hand how many people were really studying mindfulness and, and specifically in schools and with institutions and tying it to education.
It’s just recently over, I think over the [00:24:00] past five years where we’re really seeing a lot of like research funding kind of going into. These programs to, to, to get the results. And so there’s been a lack of funding to really support sustainable programs. And, or you have to do a program that’s going to reap a certain outcome, right?
So there’s some constraints there. And so for the work that I’ve. Done, I initially started 1st and foremost, like I said, just really going in and being accessible. So a lot of the programming that I offered was not at cost. And so we either did it on a donation base. Schedule in which schools could invite us in and, you know, I think one thing that I will dare say is that a lot of trust was built and moving into schools in that way.
A lot of deep relationship specifically with something that people were curious about and didn’t have a lot of information about. And so that then led to, you know, some school funding that came and more specifically, I’ll dare to say it came during the COVID. The beginnings of the COVID pandemic when.[00:25:00]
You know, the behavioral mental health and the social health of individuals was really a highlighted, really wanting to be addressed. And so we my organization bear soul also in the well, collective also partnered with other organizations. Maybe familiar like whole school mindfulness, which is, you know, a global organization and then other local organizations that really wanted to emphasize behavioral mental health.
And so really doing a lot of partnership with them and together to create these programs within school settings. And so that has been something that has really ignited the work. I have served as a program coordinator. And a trainer of mindful based restorative practices is what we really kind of like to call them.
And the work that I do a trainer for other educators and people that were volunteers. So they could then help support and build capacity for the need. And then I’ve also served as a mindfulness director, specifically under that direction of, but I mentioned whole school mindfulness.
Gissele: I love how, you know, this has been like [00:26:00] community initiative, you know, like you put forth your desire to provide assistance and be of service. And then you came together as a community to, to help and to actually impact humanity positively. This is why I think that these sort of initiatives can’t be A one off or funded by governments, they have to be embedded within the schools.
The school system has to be incorporating these as a core practice as a core value. It’s it’s the same with compassion. I think I think the whole system is shifting. I don’t think it’s sustainable. I don’t know about schools in the US, but I know the schools in Canada the things that they’re teaching are very outdated. the history is one sided. there’s this great dissatisfaction around the way that this school system is managed. These old systems in general seem to be collapsing. And so now I think it’s a perfect opportunity for us to really determine going back to your original comment.
Who are you? Who do you [00:27:00] want to be? Like really understanding ourselves and really understanding then what do we want to create as a collective and as a system. And I think the foundation of that is the mindfulness and the compassion. I’ve been involved in, in many ministry, government funded things, and sometimes it’s just the flavor of the day.
Like, so now mindfulness is big and then they’ll put it, they’ll dump a whole bunch of money into it and then, and then they’ll move on to the next flavor. And it’s like, no, no, this is, this is important and this is something that I think should be embedded. I also think that the way that you guys are doing it, it is incorporated into the culture by teaching on all those different levels.
Have you found any sort of resistance among any group in particular, or has this always been like just generalized acceptance of the program? I
Ashley: Yeah, I mean the resistance definitely right and you know, you just really named it is that you know, I think or I know that the systems that we’ve had in place, they’re, they’re being outdated.
They are falling. And [00:28:00] the ways that we know that is because, you know, the increase in mental health, the, the increase and like even school shootings, the increase and dissatisfaction of teachers, and Also, just kind of like the increase in lack of funding to then support the things or, you know, and I think that there’s so many things that, you know, the more that, you know, I know that I practice being present and the more that the people that are knee deep embedded in this work.
I do think that. When you have more mindful individuals that are paying attention, we can see all of the things, the things that are really going well and the things that are not. And so I think that’s where the resistant comes is that right now, you know, I’ve found my resistance. And in spaces in which, you know, the systems are not working right.
You know, there’s a lot of angst and within the spaces or the environment and that can be school systems that can be the government agencies that we might work with, or the ones that, you know, might have provided the [00:29:00] funding for for certain initiatives. And, you know, there’s. When we are able to highlight and or be able to name that something’s not working and state that, you know, resistance is going to come because that makes people uncomfortable.
And I think that’s kind of really where we’re landing right now. And so there’s a lot that many of us are really ready for. And then also there’s a lot that our hearts just want to feel and do better. Because we are we are experiencing So much disconnection that’s been amplifying all of these things.
And so at some point. it’s like, when do we actually call change? And so for me, the resistance has really come when I have had the capacity to say, like, Hey, this actually isn’t working right. Our kids grades aren’t getting better. We’re seeing an increase in fights, like and this is in the school system, but then even when we think about working with leadership, like the [00:30:00] teachers aren’t happy, right?
The teachers are, their wellbeing’s not at the forefront right now, or, you know, or our parents are. You know, complaining about this or our parents actually don’t have the capacity to support the youth in this way. And, you know, and then to come in and to say, Hey, do you, can we practice this? Like, is there a way that we can come in and have some communication?
Because healthy communication requires presence and it requires honesty and openness. And In those moments, you know, you there’s a lot that can be that can be brought up. And and so the resistance that I’ve really, I think, face is being able to clearly communicate what is present.
Right. And then offering up a solution. Right. That is different than the way that, you know, it might have happened before, you know, it might not be a program. It might be really relationship centered. And this is how we’re going to center relationship. And, you know, that requires work and skill [00:31:00] and practice.
And, and at the end of the day, it requires time. You know, and, and so finding time within a school schedule, finding time within a work schedule that one is familiar with to even come and be in practice outside of an institution is, I think, a challenge. And, you know, also one’s own self one owns self awareness.
Right. And can be a huge challenge, whether it’s, you know, when I’m working in within a school environment and a student is being introduced to something, but doesn’t actually know what they need. And then you offer them a practice and they’re like, why am I doing this? Right. And, you know, over time they’re like, Oh my gosh, like, this is what I needed.
And you hear the same thing with an adult, right? It’s like, you know, I just want more calm. I want more ease. I want more like compassion for myself. I want to be in better relationship. And, you know, It might take 10 times to show up [00:32:00] to be in a practice that has the opportunity to lead into that because it’s different, you know, and so there’s a lot of different reasons why resistance.
can show up both institutionally, culturally, personally, and individually. And so one of my main intentions is to continue to trust the process and to continue to be present way. If, you know, my own experience and then also being curious and open and also responsible for creating space where another person might be ignited to get curious and present about their own experience.
Gissele: Mm. Yeah. And I think this is how we change the world. It’s being standing within our own emotions, being mindful, being an allowance, getting curious because when we can hold space for our own difficult feelings, then we can be open. I can be open and [00:33:00] curious about you. I can be open and receptive to things as you hold space for your difficult feelings.
And then we can engage in that difficult dialogue where people say things that are, you know, Triggering or hurtful or whatever, and then we can still hold space for conversation versus what we do now as a society, which is cancel one another and shut down conversation. Because, like, you said, we’re not in awareness of how we’re feeling.
We’re not in awareness of what we need in that moment. And so I do believe that changing a culture is each 1 of us doing that work that work that you are helping people understand to do, which is, I think, what is important. Hopefully going to lead to the change. I wanted to circle back to what you had said, offering different, perspectives or different options in terms of what we have done before you’d mentioned how you had mindfulness in in youth justice, or is that did I hear that correctly?
Or can you talk a little bit about that? Because [00:34:00] historically with these sorts of systems, they’re based on
on isolation and separation. They’re based on punishment.
We want to punish. And so to come to these systems and say, why don’t we do something a little differently? Why don’t we include yoga or mindfulness or compassion based training? I think it would lead to that resistance. What sort of reception did you find when you were incorporating such practices within the youth justice system and what perhaps were some of the outcomes?
Ashley: Yeah. So it’s like, so I’ll, I’ll start with the resistance that might, that came from kind of, you know, adults, like my counterparts, right. You know, I think I laugh and I can laugh and I can say this with with grace and openness is that, you know, I was the happy one, right? Like I was air quotes, the happy one or the calm one.
Or the sunshine, right. But I was also working within an environment of individuals that had long hours that were working in an environment in which there were many individuals that had varying experiences of trauma, [00:35:00] right. And, and burnout and compassion fatigue, and people had big hearts.
And that’s why they showed up in these environments because they cared about other people. And. There’s also fatigue and there’s exhaustion. And so I think that that’s something that’s important to name of why I completely and fully understand why resistance was there. Because if you are whether you were a guard or I call them behavioral like specialists now and you worked on varying units and you not just witnessed, but we’re in relationship and in conversation with.
You know, use that, you know, basically have your rights taken away, regardless of what experience or what had led them there. You know, that’s a, that’s a limitation, right? That’s a sensation of, of grief of loss that you’re surrounded by. So I want to first and foremost name that I think the environments breed a culture, right?
Simply [00:36:00] by what is present in the human experience and those moments
of one
that is that, that, that is heavy. Right. And I and sensational and, and, and 1 must be aware of that. And so 1 of the main resistance was, you know, just it’s not going to work. Right? Like. a little bit of sunshine and what might seem like a dark place is just not gonna work.
And so, like, you’re wasting your time, like, you know, or even the judgment of of the youth that were incarcerated’s, like, experience of being there. Right. And so not finding that value that, you know, they even deserve to have improved focus or balance or ease or a calmed nervous system. So I think that was the thing you really have to see the human experience and kind of move beyond the The the judgment of the experience that might be different from yours.
So I think that’s something that’s important to name. So [00:37:00] that whole perception of it’s not going to work. You know, they don’t deserve this. Or then so we don’t have enough time or they’re not going to be interested was a very heavy one. And so how I got beyond that was that I kept showing up.
And, you know, of course, as young adults or teens would do anyways, you have to build relationship with them. I couldn’t come in and then teach them something completely different. I had to educate. I had to, Be in participation. I had to model being in clear communication and modeled an easeful nervous system and a tone of voice that was welcoming.
I had to create a space of belonging and safety and support. I like using all of the tenants of trauma responsive practices. Right. Of empowering voice and choice and being open to, to communication and, and understanding all of the identities and creating a space of belonging for all the identities that showed up, like you have, like, those are key.
And so that’s one way that I did that. But then when it came to also just, you [00:38:00] know, even the departments. And at hand are the departments that kind of really supervised the programs really needing to advocate for funding. So I think, you know, a lot of the roles in which when specifically when I worked with that.
And I worked within juvenile correctional centers, you know, funding, there’s a lot of volunteer based work, which I think is helpful. And, you know, I still say to this day that I would still be there. You know, if COVID had not occurred when it did, and, you know, kind of shifted some of my availability, I would still probably be there every week offering it in that way.
And then also just thinking about the sustainability of what it looks like to, to do that. And so I think funding is one way that. You know a lot of the organizations or that the department really named that they might not have had the funding to support it. Right. Or, you know, we, we don’t see the benefits of it.
Right. Or, you know, or the benefits that are right now, because a lot of times the way that we, that we measure impact is, you [00:39:00] know. Job security or I, well, which is right, but we, we measure these like very tangible things like capacity to have a job or they got released and, you know, they stayed out this amount of time or even with us, right.
You know, it’s that you were judged up about our capacity to be an attendant at something, right? Like, there’s markers, but a thing that it’s usually measured on something that is produced. Not necessarily something that which is then witnessed or built from a characteristic standpoint. And so I think it’s just hard to put money behind or to advocate.
It’s not hard to advocate, but it’s hard to see if you’re not a part of or in practice of it or in study of it to really acknowledge the impact that it has.
Gissele: Yeah, and the whole issue of, like, trying to quantify, you know, how do you quantify impact? It has to be something observable, which is why often governments will find based on outputs, not [00:40:00] outcomes.
At least that has been my experience. It’s like how many people attended or, you know, like, what, what can I, what’s the low hanging fruit and what’s something that I could easily quantify rather than what is a real long term impact on this individual’s lives and sometimes it’s not as easily observable.
And I think, you know, when you were talking about deservability earlier in our conversation, you were talking about, we don’t think that people deserve but, you know, as you were talking, I was reminded, I had a conversation with a friend of mine and she was mentioning how, you know, when people are in corrections, right, you’re asking them, like, you put them in that environment.
Right. You put them with other people that have the same level of consciousness, energy, awareness, thoughts, and then you’re asking them to do this Herculean thing about asking them to become better people, but they’re in that same environment with those same people and treated harshly. And so. How is it that you expect them then to become loving, compassionate, like [00:41:00] law abiding citizens.
So what you’re inviting them to do is to do something different to help them regulate their bodies to understand themselves so that they can understand their behavior. And that’s really what gets us to change. but again, there’s always that fear of like, they were hurtful people and therefore we’re not punishing them and therefore they’re going to be hurtful.
But it’s in fact, I found it’s the other way. It’s initiative like yours that enable people to really get in touch with that humanity, get to know themselves and and. Get to focus on their own deservedness. So, yeah, so I think that’s, I think people underestimate the power of that, but sometimes our need to punish is so high.
Ashley: But it comes from a place of fear, right? Like if we punish them, then maybe they won’t do it again, but looking at the recidivism literature,That doesn’t work. It just doesn’t work. So like you said, if it doesn’t work, then we need to do something different. If you want a different outcome, as Einstein said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and then expecting something to [00:42:00] change.
And I think that’s where we are, are right now, you know, like just, you know, as mentioning that our systems are not working. And if we think about also like the punitive systems that we have, or, you know, they’re really built, you know from places of oppression. Right. I mean, so specifically in America, right.
If we just look at, you know. About like how our, how our country was founded and, you know, who is valued, who wasn’t, when did punishment come and, you know, and who received it. And so I think that’s something that’s really key to acknowledge as we, you know, observe and witness many of the systems that were, that were created here, but then also brought from other countries and or established in other countries.
So I don’t think. You know, as much as I want to really focus on America, and many times if you’re in conversation with me, I focus on the conversation of the foundation of Richmond, like in, in Richmond’s high to not just the American history, but then [00:43:00] also the history. Three of our country and its involvement with the transatlantic slave trade and you know, they’re so we can really really look at a micro level or a macro level wherever our proximity is to see kind of like how we have chosen to move away from valuing and under valuing and understanding.
Our humanity as a whole, but then also how we value and understand individual identity and the connection to humanity. And so I think we’re really struggling with that as a people. And so these practices. That are very ancient indigenous to us. Right. So being present, being present with ourselves as a clear direction to being in relationship.
Right. And so, you know, as we think about how these systems were built, it was to keep people out of relationships with themselves. It’s to, uphold power and privilege in a way that, you know, You know, I think what right now we’re seeing the, the fall of that because we’re so far away from [00:44:00] our humanity and the way that we’re actually meant to live as humans.
And so that would need to change and that’s really what that keeps me in my own practice, but then also keeps me advocating for. Creating space for all individuals in our collective to be a part of because I think the more that we find ourselves and the earlier that we start, then the better our world is going to be well.
Gissele: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s one of the things that when we talk about, when we try to have those conversations about colonization, we try to have conversations about, look at what we’ve done as a humanity. And I say everyone, because we’ve all contributed through acts of omission or commission, right?
Like, and if we’re experiencing it, we’ve contributed to it. And so being able to hold space for those difficult conversations without Ejecting out so managing our own shame in our own guilt with love and compassion with, with understanding and curiosity and non [00:45:00] judgment will help us then understand, okay, this is who we’ve been.
Now, is this what we want to continue to be? if not this, then what? How can we then change ourselves to change humanity, to be more loving, to be more compassionate, to be more but that takes, like you said, awareness, awareness of who we’ve been. And I think, especially in Canada, there’s still, like, a huge amount of work that needs to be done about acknowledgement.
There’s been that acknowledgement of what was done to Indigenous people. But not a real, a real understanding, not a real acknowledgement of like, this is who we were, and this is what we did, and this is how we’re going to move forward to not do that or be that anymore. And this is the sort of reparations and acknowledgement and things that we need to do for our indigenous brothers and sisters in order to move towards being that.
And I think there’s still sort of like, yeah, yeah, it happened, but can we move on already? [00:46:00] No, we can’t move on because we haven’t changed. We have not changed. So until we are different, until we are more loving and compassionate and inclusive and don’t need to oppress our brother to lift ourselves up, we can’t stop looking at it.
Right. I wanted to talk just a little bit about, you mentioned creating spaces for black individuals around making it accessible to the black community yoga. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Ashley: Yeah. So as I mentioned, like I came to, you know, my yoga practice and journey in 2012, 2013, really at a time of my life of transition. And so when I was seeking you know, health, right, I was seeking myself, I was seeking ways to take care of myself. You know, I was accessing and when I found like the practice to really compliment my faith practice, right?
So by trade I am christian and you know over the past [00:47:00] 12 years, you know, like really landing in that spirituality space but At that moment, when I first began, I looked around me. And when I was really trying to dive deep into the yoga practice, I didn’t see many people that looked like me, right. I would go to the gyms and I would be always only the, I would be like one, if not one of two people of color or black women and also black women.
Right. So I think that’s a thing too, such as both gender and as well as racial identity. And the more that I practice and the more that I felt better, I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I want to Ensure that people that look like me also know about this practice, because, you know, between my mom and my dad and, you know, my uncles and my uncles and my, my uncles and my aunts and my cousins and my friends, you know, we were, there was stress that was present and varying way the stress does.
And I was like, this could be an answer or at least a method in which, you know, we learn more about and a philosophy that we learn about. And so. That, to me, was my [00:48:00] first that was really my first desire is to really want to increase representation of that, that, you know, people of color are welcome to use this.
Like, it’s an ancient indigenous practice, right? Like, and I think our society and our media has done a really good way of defining and making You know, such an ancient indigenous practice, one that, you know, comes from a lot of different places with a lot of different cultural backgrounds and relevancies and philosophies that You know, I think in America, we really, we kind of shifted what that looked like specifically during that time.
I think we’ve done better. So increasing representation was key for me. Increasing opportunity to education, but then also decreasing health disparity through this practice was something That was really important to me. And so really wanting to dive deep into that. I think one thing that we learned though, and so I’m 12 years post really engaging in this [00:49:00] practice and sharing it is that when you create a space of belonging and inclusivity and welcoming a representation for really what is historically marginalized community or underrepresented, you actually create space for so many diverse identities because It comes back to that human experience, right?
It’s like when you can see, you didn’t really see everything. And so the people and our students that were attracted to either practice with myself Or within the space and that was recreated, you know, then also could take that out and then create a more belonging space for the identities that showed up and then bring in even their identity.
And so we are a very diverse community now. And so one thing is, my journey began with, the physical. Practices pranayama and breathing and asana and movement and stuff. And today I really am an advocate for the embodiment of the philosophies that the yoga practice teaches, but a lot of that, a lot of [00:50:00] like Yoruba practices and other cultural ancient indigenous practices offer because.
You know, it, they emphasize restoration. They emphasize creativity. They emphasize freedom and liberation. They emphasize clarity and connection. They emphasize of interconnection, of self study, of presence Right now, for me, it’s really creating spaces for people to embody many of the things that we might learn to enhance our self awareness, to enhance our relationship with community, and to enhance our action, our collective action to create a better world.
And so that’s what’s really landed me at the evolution of Bare Soul, which is the well collective. And really being a movement to kind of really understand that our wellbeing is foundational and we really need to call in presence and practice and community to get back to, to our humanity and in very healing ways.
Gissele: Hmm. Oh, beautifully said. [00:51:00] Perfect. Perfect segue. Two more questions. The first one is what is your definition of unconditional love?
Ashley: Hmm. It goes back to what I named the maintain constant loveOur human experience is.
Is founded in love. Like our foundation is love. And, you know, if we can truly understand that love is an action, love comes through our speech, love comes through the way that we look or that we are it’s really an invitation to maintain constant love beyond what experience or environment or yeah, experience or environment that’s in front of us.
And so, you know. Sometimes we say, like, it’s beyond condition, but even that sometimes can be a biased statement. So for me, it’s like, it’s going back to just maintaining constant love through action. And then through presence,
Gissele: I love that choosing love basically, you know, like constantly choosing, [00:52:00] just choose.
Oh, I love it. So tell us a little bit about your website. Where can people find you? Where can people work with you or can they find out more about you?
Ashley: Yeah. So I invite you to, to be in relationship with me. You can find me at www.iamashleywilliams. com that will lead you to all of the what’s that are centered on my wise of community and connection of love and of liberation.
And so I’m all things, the well collective everywhere on Instagram, on Facebook And also on the website, thewellcollective.Space you can find me in Richmond, Virginia. So whenever you are here, please come and say hello. I am creating this very beautiful and much needed center for healing and humanity through restorative practice.
And when I say the well collective, anyone that believes that we all deserve to be well is invited to show up and care for themselves and then also [00:53:00] care for their neighbors.
Gissele: Ooh. Love it. Love it. Check out the well center and check out Ashley’s website. Thank you Ashley so much for being on the podcast and for reminding me about just love for myself.
And thank you everyone for joining us for another episode of the love and compassion podcast with Giselle. Yeah. See you soon. Bye.