Gissele: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Love and Compassion podcast with Gissele. We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives and our world. Don’t forget to like and subscribe for more amazing content. I’d like to take this opportunity to share with you an exciting project that I’m working on with a team of researchers and worldwide guests.
I’m directing a documentary called Courage to Love the Power of Compassion, and we’ll be sharing stories of individuals who are doing the unthinkable, loving those who are most hurtful. Through this documentary, we’ll be answering the question, whether love does have the power to transform enemies into friends and challenges into opportunities to support our documentary.
Please look for us in the fundraiser at https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/courage-to-love-the-power-of-compassion We’ll be offering lots of perks for your contribution, including associate director credit for our film. So look, look out for that. On today’s podcast, we’ll be talking [00:01:00] about the relationship between Love and Money, and we have a special guest today.
It’s my friend Ghary. Gh ary. David Wong is a spiritual explorer who sheds lights on life’s steps through hospice care, mortality insights, and a bout of homelessness. Departing from a corporate career, he offers a unique perspective on purpose and abundance. In his latest book, abundance Soul, abundant Life, he shares love’s transformative power for a purposeful existence based on personal discoveries.
Please join me in welcoming my friend Ghary. Hi Ghary.
Ghary: Hi, Gissele. I’m so glad to be here.
Gissele: Yes, thank you for being here with us. We’re gonna talk about love and money, and often those two aren’t associated, actually very seldom. And so I’m super excited to talk to you and talk about your [00:02:00] book. But to begin with, can you tell our listeners what got you started on this journey?
Ghary: Boy, you know, interestingly, I thought I was gonna write a book about, strictly about Money, but you actually read the book. It ends up it, you know, it’s a book about love. Mm-hmm. And you know, this, this has been a long time journey for me. I mean, I’ve studied with a lot of different people like Wayne Dyer and Neil Donald Walsh, those kind of people.
You know, I, I started journaling from 1991. Wow. And I’ve been, I’ve been keeping a daily journal and after a certain point in time I had a section in there which I call reflections. And what happened was that these are sort of insights that I’ve had, and over the years I’ve realized that [00:03:00] those, those reflections actually come from my guides.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Love that.
And so unexpected, right? Like, one of the things I lot I love about this journey that we are on, sort of like with this humanity is that often the most surprising and most beautiful things are unexpected, right?
You went in thinking you are gonna write this book on money, and you came out writing this book on love and the relationship with money, right? And so it’s, it’s been an amazing journey just to watch as a friend. For those of the listeners who haven’t yet gotten your book, tell us a little bit about kind of how is money even related to love?
Ghary: You know, I, I look at money as part, part and parcel to everything that we, we wish for or that we work to achieve in this lifetime.
Gissele: Hmm.
Ghary: And so it is part of what I call abundance. [00:04:00] It is everything. So you know, it’s, it’s to me the most important thing in life is to experience love in all of its various cues and shades. It starts with loving ourselves. And then when we have enough love within ourselves, we have the desire to express that outwardly to others.
Mm-hmm. And that’s the same as saying something like what is your passion? Mm-hmm. I believe that when we move in that direction and we move towards this place where we feel better about ourselves and feel more worthy, then everything that comes to us, right? Mm-hmm. So, so my feeling is that we come here to experience love and to express it to others.
And then of course, the second thing is just to have fun while we’re here, [00:05:00] you know?
Gissele: Yeah, definitely. I love what you said. I’m gonna pick up on just the, the sense of worth. I know in my experience you know, you know, thinking about worth. And there was a time in my life when I wasn’t really kind of out picturing kind of the, the kind of abundance that I was wanting.
And I remember going into a meditation and, you know, I, I kind of said to myself, out of nowhere, I don’t feel worthy to receive. So that was interesting because I didn’t think I believed that about myself. I didn’t think that I, I had those feelings of worthiness, but they were showing up in specific ways.
how did worthiness come up for you during your most challenging moments?
Ghary: You know, I have to take a step back. When I was in Los Angeles, I had gone to a local McDonald’s, and while I was, when I was walking in, I happened to bump into this homeless man who asked me for some spare change.
But [00:06:00] what I did is instead of giving him some change, I asked him, what do you want? I’ll buy you anything on the menu.
Gissele: Hmm.
Ghary: So, so he, when I asked him, what do you want? He, he couldn’t think of anything. It took him over a minute to figure out. What he was gonna ask me for. And in the end, he asked me for, he said, well, just gimme a hamburger and a small drink.
So obviously when I go in there, I, I order the supersized meal and everything with everything. So I gave it to him. And then when I gave it to him, he, he sort of lowered his eyes and he, he thanked me under his breath. And then this man really touched me because when I went back to my car, I started sobbing.
I, I couldn’t help it because I realized that this man had lost all of his self-esteem. He couldn’t even, someone asks you what [00:07:00] you want, anything, and he tells me the, the smallest thing on the, on the menu. And that really affected me. So later when I had returned here to Hawaii myself, you know, this, my home.
I got into some financial problems and I actually had to be living on the street myself. I was lucky enough to have, have a friend that loaned me their car to live in, and this happened for about 10 months.
Gissele: Wow. But it was, that’s a long time.
Ghary: It was that experience. I think that I realized, I said, you know, I need to make sure that my self-esteem doesn’t get so low that I can’t even ask for more.
And I’ve always believed in, in the law of attraction, law of assumption that I need to raise my vibration. Mm-hmm. And Honda and his, his book, [00:08:00] happy Money, talks about the fact that, you know, whatever you put out, just like the law of attraction, whatever you put out, you get back. He believes that you have to raise your vibration to that.
And so I was thinking to myself, how can I receive anything being homeless if I’m not giving back myself? And I’m not saying giving back of money to somebody else. I’m saying giving back who I’m the essence to share this, this person of whatever I can give to someone else. And I think that that’s the key is that that’s what we come here for.
You know, it’s, it’s great to, to get the car, get the girl, get the college get the house and all these other things. But in reality, we can’t take anything with us, you know? Mm-hmm. When we, we transition over to the other side, nothing is gonna go with us except our [00:09:00] experience and our memories. And so that’s why I, I, I think that the only reason why we’re here is to.
To experience and express love and to help someone else learn the same thing and help them to move on themselves, you know? Yeah,
Gissele: yeah. Did, did the actual raising your vibration and energy help you like, get outta homelessness?
did you know that you were done with homelessness before you actually saw it in reality? Or was it something that you were just continuing your, to uplift your vibration and then there was a change?
Ghary: I would say that obviously in the beginning I’m in it deep.
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: Just like anything else, in any other problem, we search for for solutions, right?
We figure out how can I get out of this situation? [00:10:00] We ask how did we get into this situation the first place?
Gissele: Yeah. And then
Ghary: how do I get out of it? Mm-hmm. So after a while I started thinking about it and I said, how can I get out of this? And I started thinking about that man that I met and the importance of staying in this positive you know, feeling in order to manifest.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. And did you, did that lead to a number of synchronicities that helped you get out of that? Because it’s an extraordinary thing to go from that place to being outside of poverty, right. Especially when there were circumstances that led you to that.
Ghary: You know, I, I can’t pinpoint actual synchronicities other than the fact that, I mean, one of the, the biggest change that happened was that I actually developed a a medical problem when I was there.[00:11:00]
So I was, I was actually taking showers, cold showers out down at the beach. You know, they have the, oh wow. free showers when you come out of the water. And I was living in the car and some friends of mine from the beach noticed that I had a problem with my leg. It had turned red. So they looked at me and they said, you better go to the hospital or see her doctor.
And they didn’t know my situation. So, so they said, look, unless you go to your doctor or go to the hospital, we’re gonna take you there if you don’t do it.
Gissele: Hmm.
Ghary: So, so I said, okay. So I went to see my doctor and as soon as he saw my leg, he, he put me in a wheelchair and he pushed me across the street because he is right across from the hospital.
And I had to stay in the in the hospital for 13 days. Mm-hmm. And I had, [00:12:00] I had this thing called I think it was called cellulitis, which is an infection.
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Ghary: And I was told by relatives and friends who are in the medical field, that 13 days was a long time for an infection like that. I could have, I could have died.
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Ghary: The nice thing was that after that happened, a friend of mine had come to me and he said, I need someone to help me to house sit. So said Yeah. So that, yeah, that one of the, one of the things that had happened, so.
Gissele: Mm. That’s interesting. That’s, it shows how something that was challenging got you.
Out of that situation Right. And got you into a new environment when there could be a change. So yeah, sometimes these things seem like a worsening, but sometimes it can be seen as, as a [00:13:00] help. Right.
Ghary: I would say that I spend more time seeing synchronistic situations now than before. I think actually have to tune into that.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Because.
Ghary: We’re not aware of those kind of little, small, little things. It’s just gonna pass you by. Yeah. Yeah. And I think definitely that the, I think that God or the angels or whatever you wanna call, sends it to us all the time. We, we put out this desire what we want, and it said, okay, here you go.
And it’s like, oop goes over your head if you don’t see it, you know? So, yeah.
Gissele: Yeah, not, and that was one of the things that I’ve, I’ve realized in my life that there were so many times that there were so many, it’s, it’s weird. We think the situations come out of nowhere, right? Like, but they’re kind of all around us.
It’s just, we don’t, we just don’t see it because we’ve got these blinders [00:14:00] on. It’s like when you ask one of your kids to look for something, it’s literally right there. And then they’re like, I can’t find it. And then you just go and pick it up. It was always there. It’s just because we have these filters of fear that we don’t, we are not able to see it.
And so that, that’s sort of, it’s been my experience. And that relates to what you were talking about in terms of the, the being able to kind of expand your awareness of it, right. And be able to see those synchronicities and, and opportunities when God source universe is helping you
Ghary: You know something happened to me a few months ago. I was, I was thinking to myself because my father passed away years ago.
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Ghary: But he was, he was he made, was a little bit over a hundred years old.
Gissele: Wow.
Ghary: Yeah. That’s amazing. I know my mother passed at 95, so. Wow. After,
Gissele: after your point, you gotta tell me what their secret to longevity is.
Go ahead. [00:15:00]
Ghary: Anyway I, I always have this feeling that my father is around watching me and helping me. Mm-hmm. As with my mother.
Gissele: Mm.
Ghary: And I don’t know what it is, but I was just thinking about it and I said, you know, dad, I hope you’re around helping me.
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: And I happened to call this friend of mine up in, up in San Francisco, and we were chatting about something completely.
About something else. And she stops our conversation. She says, Ghary, I don’t know why I have to tell you this, but I wanted to just say that your father said that he’s
your father, said that he is listening to you. Mm.
Gissele: And
Ghary: Oh, okay. And then afterwards it hit me. I said, oh my God. You know? Yeah. That’s exactly what happened the other day when I was, I had asked whether he was there listening. [00:16:00] So obviously, you know.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. You know,
Ghary: some people go, oh yeah. You know?
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Hmm.
I love that. So one of the things you also mentioned earlier was about finding our passions, but some people don’t know how to do that. Like it’s hard for them to, and I, I kind of have this theory. You let me know what you think. I. If you as a kid maybe had passions, but maybe they weren’t encouraged or maybe they were diminished, right?
Like, they’re like, oh, that’s silly, or that’s ridiculous. You may be less likely to want to pursue those things other than the things you think you should do out of fear, maybe to be shamed or out of like, worry that people are gonna think that whatever your passion is is ridiculous. What sort of things have you seen in, in people’s journeys in trying to find their passions?
Ghary: Okay, so my, my idea is that [00:17:00] when we come to this place, which is basically an illusion, it is a place where, where God sets it up, where we can experience different things, and that is love. In order for us to understand. Things, there has to be separation between us. Mm-hmm. When we come the source, we’re all together, so it’s impossible to see ourselves.
Gissele: Mm.
Ghary: But, but when we are separated, we can see someone else and we can see that reflection of ourselves. Mm-hmm. So I believe that there’s an whole purpose of this separation. And that could be lost too. Right? Separation is also loss. Yeah. So I think that what happens is that the separation causes us to, it gives us the ability [00:18:00] to contrast things and to, to look at things.
So when we come to this place, we come separated and the ego develops as a young child. In order to help us understand what separation is.
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Ghary: The first, the first known thing is when they cut the umbilical cord, right? Yes. Or when you’re with your mother and then you, you’re pulled away from her breasts and you realize, mm-hmm.
I’m not connected with my mother anymore. So I think that there’s a purpose in for all of this. That’s why, you know, we have such things as people around the world that don’t make us happy. But through those situations of contrast, we come to understand and make a choice.
Do I wanna act the same way as that person? Do I wanna [00:19:00] be. Sometimes growing up you say, gee, I wanna be a fireman, because you happen to see some firemen doing something. Or I a singer because you know, somebody that’s a, a great singer, you see a great performance or something like that. I think that all of life, we, we look at ourselves in contrast to others, and then we make that decision.
And so through the, through that and through for some people like myself and through other I have a friend that was an alcoholic and he lost his wife, almost lost, I’m sorry, almost lost his family because of that. And you know, he, he came, he hit rock bottom just like I did. He came out of that and through the lessons, now he’s better able to help others of the same.
Way, just like I am in the, [00:20:00] in the knowledge that I have come through, you know? So this, that’s what I believe is, is in order to figure out what your passion is, sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes it has to do with some very, very deep wound that you have suffered in your path. You know, that you vow that you’re gonna change, like being bullied in the school and then after that saying, you know, I’m not gonna let that happen.
Im gonna create sort situation where it can help these kids. Mm-hmm.
Gissele: Yeah. Thank you for that. I was reflecting on my own life. So. I never thought that I would be doing what I’m doing now. I never, I had a specific plan in my, and that was my dream. Like my dream was to work in the field of child welfare until I was old and gray and to sort of revolutionize it and whatever.
So imagine my surprise when I’m there, you know, [00:21:00] trying to bring compassionate love into child welfare, and all I’m doing is hitting walls, right? Like, it’s like I’m swimming upstream and I get this inner calling that I’m supposed to be doing something else. I’m supposed to go somewhere else. I’m supposed to be, and now I’m doing something completely else.
But it, I, I could not have planned it. That’s the beauty of the, of this sort of, inner wisdom that exists within us. And so this inner wisdom that exists within us, that is constantly guiding us.
But if I had only stuck to what I thought my original passion was, I would not be doing some of the most extraordinary things I’m doing now and some way more exciting than anything I could have thought. But I kind of had to go through the wall of like burning out in the child welfare system and having all of these struggles in terms of people accepting my message so that I could end up here.
What helped you find your passions,
Ghary: I would say so. I’ve always loved helping people to [00:22:00] understand life.
Gissele: Mm mm-hmm.
Ghary: At a very young age that I could see things, big picture and be able to break them down to be, to explain it to someone else.
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: So that’s why my book talks about, you know, when I use the term ego mm-hmm. The way I see is this is this other persona of ourselves that lives to receive accolades from others.
So we make choices based on that. Like we ask questions internally, like, why is this person receiving more income than me and I’m doing the same amount? Or shouldn’t I be buying a, a brand new car so that other people can see how well I. Yeah. You know, or when I used to go to class reunions, you know, a person has been [00:23:00] doing so well and they, they have this home and they have all these kids and grandkids and, you know, my life is completely different.
So yeah. Along with Wayne Dyer’s belief, you know, is that get on purpose. So the, there’s a movement at some point of moving from living a life of ego, which I believe is much more much more tough because we’re always worried about what other people are thinking of us to a point of living purpose so that we, we move in the direction that we feel is right for us to help others rather than trying to compete with anybody else.
That’s why, things like being a politician to me is, this is one of the most idiotic things because they go into it figuring out that you’re gonna help others. But you spend almost all your trying time [00:24:00] trying to live up to the expectations of your voters and trying to get their vote. You know? Hmm.
You’re sitting in this massive ego type of type of thing.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. What do you think are some helpful ways or some good questions that people can ask themselves to begin to discover their passions?
Ghary: You know, I think having a conversation with ourselves is one of the best things to mm-hmm. To sit down and actually have this conversation. Mm. I learned this from Sarah McCrum who wrote the book love Money, money Loves You, and Ended having a conversation with money, which I did, and I was, I, I found it really interesting that money told me why are you so afraid of me?
That’s the first thing.
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Ghary: I’ve doing, I’ve been doing this kind of [00:25:00] internal asking of questions
Gissele: and being
Ghary: open to what those answers are as to what I. If you look at if you’ve ever listened to Steve Jobs doing that Stanford University commencement exercise, it is one of the most watched YouTube videos around.
But he talks about this interesting point, which it, it’s totally applicable. And that is he said that you don’t realize what your life is all about until you look back and you are able to connect the dots.
Gissele: Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ghary: Or you have no idea how to, what to do. You just have to follow, like a lot of these spiritual people.
Follow your bliss. Yeah. Figure out what makes you happy and just follow that. There’s a entity called Bashar, who’s
Gissele: mm-hmm. [00:26:00]
Ghary: He is he is brought by Daryl Anka. Bahar said, I remember once he said, just follow what you every day in the morning, throughout the day, just follow what makes you happy. And pretty soon what happens that I’ve discovered is that answers will start coming to you.
Gissele: Yeah. About
Ghary: what, what you’re here for. So for me on that, on that specific part, you know, I’ve just been going along. I was in business for a while, for a long time.
Gissele: Hmm.
Ghary: I always thought I was gonna make all of my money in that I was in commercial real estate. I was in funding and things like that, and did quite well in some parts.
But towards the end I just, I just realized that, you know, business wasn’t for me. I just wasn’t to be there, you know? Mm-hmm. I just was, yeah, I was struggling too much. [00:27:00] You know? And I think that that part is that we have to be, we have to be really cognizant about what’s happening to us, you know?
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that level of self-awareness in terms of like, so you in the, takes courage, right? Because especially if you were a successful commercial real estate person, to go from that to like your inner callings, like, I wanna write books, I wanna share my wisdom, I wanna help people. It might be a bit of a gap, right?
Like to leave the security of a job or to leave the security of something that you know, is a sure thing to follow that path sometimes feels really overwhelming. There’s been times when I’ve been guided to do things and I’m like. What am I doing? Like why am I doing this? Like it doesn’t compute in my logical mind.
I know enough now to follow it, but it can cause some real discomfort in terms of your, like your logical mind is telling [00:28:00] you, no, no, no. Stay in this job and then try to do this on the side until it works. Where’s your heart saying, no, jump in. We got you. And, and if you grew up in an environment where you didn’t trust like me, you know, I grew up with parents that experienced not so great childhoods.
And they didn’t trust people. They didn’t trust life. They didn’t trust themselves. And so I wasn’t taught to trust. And so to go from that and to I’m gonna trust the universe fully and completely seemed like a big chasm for me.
Ghary: Well, you know, it sounds kind of strange, but I think I was fortunate enough that I became homeless, which finally kicked me, you know, in the head. Gotcha. You know I describe my life as taking the road less traveled
Gissele: and mm-hmm.
Ghary: Often taking detour along the path to look at different things in our, in my life.
And then stopping at a lot of roadside [00:29:00] distractions.
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: Right. Yeah. So, yeah. But, you know, I, I, I have to say that, following that inner voice of ours and listening. Yeah. Probably one of the most important things we can do. Seeing things that are happening to our life, why certain things are happening here and what, what the outcome is all lead to the same place, you know, and if you just allow it, I think is if you just allow it, it opens up to you.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So going back to the question that you, when you were talking about talk to money, right? Talk to money and see what comes up. How do you know for yourself if the answer is coming from your inner self or higher self versus your ego self that’s telling you, oh, this should, you should do this, or you should do that.
How do you know when you’re actually listening to your inner [00:30:00] guidance versus your eagle self that thinks or is like, you know, portraying itself as if it’s the higher mind?
Ghary: Well, one of the things that I look at is, is the solution there to make me look good?
Yeah. Or something that really is internal to me, because that’s what the ego is telling, right? Mm-hmm. Do it this way because people are gonna, are gonna respect you for it, or people are not gonna laugh at you for doing it.
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: Right? Mm-hmm. Most difficult things in life are the things that, that we have a fear for, like speaking in public or something like that.
Gissele: Yeah. And
Ghary: yet, and what, you know, inside of us, we recognize that this is where we are headed and that’s where we need to be, right?
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: [00:31:00] So I think those, those inner messages come to us. Like for me, a lot of, a lot of the stuff in my book, I had no clue as to what they were. I mean,
Gissele: when I wrote,
Ghary: I was thinking, you know, I was reading through some of the passages in my book and I was thinking, who wrote this?
Gissele: You know? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ghary: But it, it certainly, I didn’t have this thought,
Gissele: none of
Ghary: the information that I had read in other books had this thought, so I was thinking where did this come from anyway.
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: You know?
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Ghary: So that’s, I think that’s the trust that we have to have, you know, either you even that there is no such thing as, as God, and there’s no such thing as inner guidance, then it’s not gonna happen until you get to where you believe that.[00:32:00]
There is a guiding force for us and that it’s good that it’s not there to, to punish us, but it’s there to help us. You know, it’s, it’s that, you know, Neil talks about Neil, Donald Walsh talks about the fact that he calls God love,
Gissele: you
Ghary: know?
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: So any, anything that we talk about in this world of love is also God, and God is love.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ghary: And if we come from, from that place, we are part of it all. We are God, we are love. Mm-hmm. Right.
Gissele: Yeah. Yeah.
Ghary: The other thing too I is that most people believe love and happiness comes from outside of us.
Gissele: Yeah, true.
Ghary: That’s a big issue that a lot of people, you know, you, you see a lot of things.
I’m [00:33:00] not into relationship. I’m not suggesting that I am a, a expert on relationship, but I do have to say that, that I think that love and, and happiness all comes internally. It’s always there. It’s always been there. That’s where we had come from. You can’t get rid of it, but you just that we don’t, we don’t realize that we have it here.
So we turn, we turn to other people, and we turn to other things to make us happy and to make, and to make us feel like we’re loved. Yeah. You know?
Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. I think, I mean, that has been my experience in terms of like, I was a very insecure, young person. I didn’t think I was lovable or attractive enough and all of these things, and I was constantly looking for outside to tell me that I was worthy.
And even from my partner, my current partner, it was like that, and it caused me a lot of [00:34:00] suffering. And it was only when I realized that what I was looking for externally I could give to myself. Right. I, it was when I realized, I’m like, I’m the person who’s looking to accept myself. And when you tap into that, you tap into this, like you mentioned, this kind of unlimited, well, happiness and love and all these things are an inside job.
So often we’re looking for other people, and when I kind of stop having that. Resistance, the need for people to, to reassure me, the need for people to validate me and to do all of those things. My relationship with those people changed because I no longer expected them to do that. I could do it for myself and then sort of like the dynamics changed, but if I hadn’t lived it, I probably wouldn’t have believed it, if you know what I mean?
Ghary: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
like what you had told me months ago or the other year when we were talking about it, that you [00:35:00] said that when you had found love inside yourself, you just kept looking in the mirror and loving yourself, and then one day it happened, and that’s true.
I do have to say one thing that I’ve done recently that is really helpful is I was working on a bucket list of things that I wanna do before I pass. And in doing so, I also made a list of items. So I went on the website and I, I found this website that says, these are all the great things you can do before you die.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. And I,
Ghary: I realized that in that list of 50 things, I had done like 20 of them already.
Gissele: Oh, wow.
Ghary: That’s amazing. So, yeah. So I began to realize, I said, you know, after all, I’m worth it. You know, I’ve ever, you’ve
Gissele: lived a full life. Yeah. Great. Yeah. [00:36:00]
Ghary: Elevated. It’s actually elevated my idea of my booking list now
Gissele: mm-hmm.
That
Ghary: myself to do more.
Gissele: Yeah. Oh, that’s so great. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And I, and I did, sorry, going back to the point you had made about the conversation we had had that, that was my experience as well, is I was planting seeds of loving myself. And there was times when I didn’t feel anything was changing, and then one day there was like a switch.
I, I don’t know what determines it’s on the nth day. It could be the second day. It could be like the, you know, 850th day for someone. But it’s like you’re planting seeds and you’re just waiting for it to sprout. And the more seeds you plant and the more you tend to it, the, the more likely it comes out. We just can’t determine when it comes out.
Right. The other thing I wanted to talk about, which you had mentioned is this concept of death. Right. Because I think that’s probably mankinds or [00:37:00] humankind’s last hurdle to address. Is the fear of death, is the fear that this body, this humanity, like this, this thing that we’re carrying is it for us.
And so, and I think it limits us in a lot of way. People, a lot of people are just surviving instead of living fearlessly. What helped you overcome your fear of death and and how might that have helped you live more? You know, this is a tough subject. Mm. Because I believe that there’s a reason for feeling this way of loss.
Mm. Yeah. That big lesson of separation. Mm-hmm. That loss, you know, for, for a infant that dies or a child that dies. I mean, even when my parents died,
yeah. I,
Ghary: I lost and I was [00:38:00] depressed. But one thing I’ve come to, so I think that addressing this idea of death is difficult. It may take a few lifetimes.
I don’t know. For me, what happens is that I lived I lived in Los Angeles for a quite while, and then I had returned to, and when I returned to Hawaii, my parents were around 86 years old, thereabouts.
Gissele: Mm.
Ghary: Yeah. And so I kind of was thinking to myself, you know, I should prepare myself for their death.
Ultimate passing. I, I didn’t realize that they released, I think you
Gissele: did it too early. Go ahead.
Ghary: So I started reading up a lot about the death and dying.
Gissele: Mm. Elizabeth
Ghary: books you know, a lot of these different books. One book that changed my life, I don’t even remember the name, but it, it [00:39:00] basically says when you, you come to the when you come to embrace death, you live a much better life.
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: Because there is no connection or there’s no, you know, being held by that. So I did some hospice work actually for about three years. I was a volunteer for,
Gissele: I sat
Ghary: with the dying which was an amazing experience. I recommend anybody to donate your time to do that. All you’re doing is respite. I was just doing respite work, which meant that when the families wanted to go to a movie or go out and buy something or do something, they didn’t have to worry about their father or mother that I would be sitting there with them and doing that.
I was fortunate enough to have a gentleman that he actually lived about 13 months before he passed. He was 26 years [00:40:00] old and he passed at 97. And we would have all these wonderful conversations about death and dying, you know also facilitated a non-grief, death and dying discussion group here in Hawaii.
Gissele: Hmm.
Ghary: Because nobody was talking about non-G grief stuff. They were talking about,
Gissele: yeah.
Ghary: How to resolve grief. So I started this, I received, there was so many people at this meeting that we would have twice a month. It was just so much fun. And then I also interviewed a whole bunch of people that were doing near death studies that had an experience.
Just so happens the International Association of Near Death studies ions had their national conference here in Hawaii. So I, I went to it and I interviewed about 20 or 30 people, not, not on tape, just [00:41:00] talking. And I met this one guy who had told me that he had lost his fear of death. And I asked him, how did you do that?
He says, you know, I don’t look at life and death the way it is that most people think. I look at it like a circle. It’s like a un circle that we go through life and death. Life and death. Right. And so he changed me completely after that, I lost my fear of death.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Then through
Ghary: discussion group, we would, we would chat about different things, and then through my.
Through my experience with that man who I sat in hospice. Yeah,
Gissele: yeah.
Ghary: Also changed me quite a bit, you know?
Gissele: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ghary: Wow. I’ll tell a story that in my death and dying discussion that we had, we were showing videos [00:42:00] and there was this one video of that woman what was her name? She’s, she’s a psychic.
Her name evades me right now. Sovia Brown? No, no, she’s, she’s national. She’s the one with the blonde hair? No. Oh. Anyway, so she’s good. So she’s telling this story that she’s in the hospital with her grandmother who was in a coma. Yeah. And the grand, the grandmother’s Italian speaks only Italian. So all of a sudden the grandmother comes out of her Cobo and she starts speaking to her late husband who had died in Italian.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. So it wasn’t, you know, the, it wasn’t the fact that she was speaking in Italian, but she was chatting with her, her late husband, and then at some point after the whole episode, she was just sitting there in her bed and she had this big smile on her face. [00:43:00] Oh, her name is Jean Houston. Jean Houston.
Ghary: That’s, oh,
Gissele: yeah. Okay.
Ghary: so she says, she, she asked the grandmother, grandma, why are you smiling?
And the grandmother said, well, I can see over on the other side already.
Gissele: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ghary: Really? What does it look like? And the grandmother says, well, it kind of looks like there’s a party going on over there.
Gissele: Hmm.
Ghary: So from that video, I went to my guy that weekend to sit with him.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. And I asked,
Ghary: I said, Hey I said, Hey Henry, can you see over the other side yet?
And he thinks for a second. Yeah, I guess so. And I said, what does it look like anyway? So he thinks about for a second. Then he says to me, well, it kind of looks like there’s a party going on over there.
Gissele: Wow. Yeah.
Ghary: And I was thinking, [00:44:00] oh, you know, there’s some truth someplace in all of this. Right?
Gissele: Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Ghary: Shut your off to shut yourself off from, from things like this means that you’re denying what reality is. It’s like, it’s like believing that flat, right? And it, people are starting to say, no, the world is round. And you say, no, no, no, no. I don’t believe it. Mm-hmm.
Gissele: Yeah. It’s, it’s so funny that you mentioned that.
’cause I do see that, I feel like the veil is thinner as we age. Right. And some people get really scared by that.
like you mentioned, there’s also a concept or an aspect of it, of loss, right? Like the death is always harder for the people that stay behind. either you transition and nothing happens, which you can believe, or you transition and you go to that big party But the people that are staying behind are the ones that have to experience that loss. And for [00:45:00] us, human beings, it’s hard. It can feel really, really challenging. What, what did your parents say was the key to their longevity? Did they ever mention that? Did you ever ask them?
Ghary: My father would. My father would say that one glass of red wine at for dinner.
Gissele: Oh, okay.
Ghary: You know what he used to, he used to, at a hundred years old or more, he was bench, bench pressing a hundred pounds. You know, he would go to the thing. He would just, before he died, he, he would go out to drive himself in his own car to go to the other side of the island to play golf.
Yeah. You know, 18. Do you think
Gissele: physical activity has a lot to do with it? Like the mobility, like physical activity, good diet. Right, because you know, you’re moving the chi right. So it’s like the more you move, the less likely you are to kind of decline. Right. So that makes a lot of sense. Was your mom as as mobile as well?[00:46:00]
Ghary: No, my mom. No, my mother unfortunately had Parkinson’s Oh, I’m
Gissele: sorry about that. Yeah. My dad has Parkinson’s, so I know what it’s like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ghary: having parents that living that long really is, is obviously a different kind of situation.
But, but a friend of mine who was a, a hospice counselor told me that when your parents, both your parents die, you end up feeling like an orphan, even though I have siblings and I couldn’t figure out what he meant. So it happened to me and then I realized he.
Gissele: It’s, it’s interesting how it hits you even if you are like older, right?
Like you would think, okay, well I’m older and I should be able to be okay with my parents passing. But there’s like, sometimes there’s so much going on. Like you there might have [00:47:00] things you never got a chance to say or, you know, like even if you had a good relationship, you’re gonna miss their companionship.
Like all of these things, all these dynamics that kind of come into play. So a couple more questions before we go. I did wanna ask you a question about authenticity. ’cause you mentioned that in the book and I, I thought it was really important to mention. What do you think is the key to living an authentic life?
Ghary: Boy
you know, I, I think it, it couples with the idea of ego.
Gissele: Hmm.
Ghary: You can choose to live by this. By this persona of the ego, which to me is, is like a ma a mask sometimes that we place on ourselves that others will, will like us. You know, for some people back in school, they were the class clown because it felt so insecure that they felt good when people were laughing with them rather than laughing at them.
Yeah. So I think that I think that [00:48:00] authenticity is one of the keys to, to truth really, because especially for men who have a hard time crying in public or showing emotions.
Gissele: Yeah, I
Ghary: think, I think really authenticity is power. That because authenticity oftentimes reveals vulnerability. But to me, vulnerability is power. Mm-hmm. Once, once you show that no one can take that part away from you, you know, for me to hide, for me to hide problems that I’ve had in my past, like being homeless
Gissele: mm-hmm.
Ghary: That was happening. I, I did not wanna see friends. Yeah. I grew up with like that. Mm-hmm. And yet
Gissele: mm-hmm.
Ghary: There a time when I had to tell the world of [00:49:00] that fact and it, and it was, it was one of the most freeing.
So I think authenticity comes with living that passionate life, really.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ghary: Yeah. I think it’s hard to, I think it’s hard to live authentically. On a life of ego and wanting to, you know, create something that’s not us. That when we figure out is we’re moving in that direction of authenticity and that is who we are.
That is, that is what we are sharing for ourselves and to others.
Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned, you mentioned the whole concept of how difficult sometimes it can be to be vulnerable. Right. I feel like some boys, in our society have been conditioned not to be vulnerable, not to express emotions such as crying or [00:50:00] weakness or vulnerability.
And so that does prevent them from being authentically themselves. And so you kind of have to have this persona of stoicism, stoicism. But, the payoff of that is that you might not be living an authentic life. You can’t authentically express your emotions, the, the spectrum of full emotions.
And so that can, that can actually kind of hinder you from really living authentically and therefore potentially also finding your passion. So, so I think that’s
Ghary: I think that just the idea of choosing to live that way, to live the truth.
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Ghary: That is the idea of living your passion. I mean,
Gissele: yeah.
Ghary: If, if you were doing something completely different, you weren’t, you, you are not living authentically because you’re not being true to yourself.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ghary: Right. So I keep asking myself, I keep asking myself, am I doing this? Am I true? Do I [00:51:00] believe is what I’m feeling true to myself? And do I believe in what I’m doing?
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: You know?
Gissele: Yeah. Absolutely. So I ask all my guests what their definition of unconditional love is. So if you could share yours, that would be great.
Ghary: Every time I think of unconditional love, I think the first thing I think about is my mother.
Gissele: Hmm.
Ghary: Is the, the very person that taught me taught unconditional love.
Gissele: Yeah.
Ghary: I never, I ended up doing the eulogy for my mother. Mm. So I asked I interviewed a lot of friends and family.
Gissele: Mm. And
Ghary: well, obviously at that time, no one spoke ill of her, but, you know, I, I couldn’t remember a time when I ever heard her spoke ill of anybody else.
She would get mad at some things mad at me, of course, [00:52:00] for.
She was the epitome of un unconditional love. So that, for me, that picture I have in my mind and person is, is one that does that is it, is, it is going out and living a life. And, you know, I, I don’t say that I’m gonna live fully that way. I keep trying, working on it, you know, I keep working towards that.
So that every day I, I remind myself. But I think choosing to live with that in, in that respect
Gissele: mm-hmm.
Ghary: And be best to yourself on how you wanna live creates a much, much easier way of, of finding your, finding your passion and, and, and bringing to you all the things that you desire in life, you know?
Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. So last question. Where can people find you? Where, you know, [00:53:00] what are you doing, what do you wanna share with the audience? Where can people find your book? Please share.
Ghary: I guess the best way, www Ghary David won.com. And my name, first name is with an H, so it’s G-H-A-R-Y.
David won WON dot com. You can go over there, they can find out all about me. I’m actually creating some new content now of courses and other things, so to help people with that. And yeah, I, anything I can do to help anybody else, I’m very much open to doing. So, you know.
Gissele: Thank you Ghary, and thank you for being a guest on the Love and Compassion Podcast with Gissele and tune in once again for another episode.
Ghary: Thank.