Transcript
Gissele: [00:00:00] Martin Luther King write, does love have the power to turn an enemy into a friend? Does it have the power to heal? This year, we are creating an inspiring documentary, courage to Love the Power of Compassion, which explores the extraordinary stories of those who have chosen to do the unthinkable love and forgive those who are most hurtful Through their journeys, we will uncover the profound impact of forgiveness love, not only on those offering it, but also those receiving it.
In addition, we’ll hear from experts who will explore whether love and compassion are part of our human nature, and how we can bridge divides with those we disagree with. If you’d like to support our film, please donate at [00:01:00] http://www.maitricentre.com/documentary
Penelope: Hello and welcome to The Loving Compassion Podcast with Giselle. We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives and our world. Don’t forget to like and subscribe for more amazing content.
Gissele: Today we’re talking about compassion to and from animals. And our guest today is Penelope Smith. Since the 1970s, Penelope has been the founding pioneer for the field, whose name she originated, interspecies Telepathic communication, author of the popular classic books in the field, animal Talk when Animals Speak.
Animals in spirit, many audio recordings and founding editor of Species Link Magazine. Penelope has held the hub of the growing community of animal communicators worldwide for decades. She has a bachelor’s and master’s degree in social sciences, years [00:02:00] of training and experience on human counseling, nutrition and holistic body energy, balancing methods, research into animal nutrition, anatomy, behavior, and care, plus the firsthand education from thousands of animals.
She has contacted Penelope’s Visionary work has been featured in numerous newspapers, articles, magazines throughout the US and beyond, and she has developed true and tried telepathic communication techniques which complement current scientific knowledge and traditional methods. Her methods foster people’s ability to understand and communicate with animals on many levels, physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.
As a trailblazer and world renowned teacher of basic and advanced interspecies telepathic communication, she has helped launch the careers of numerous professional animal communicators. Penelope feels that the sacred connection we make [00:03:00] through telepathic communication with other species is essential for human wholeness.
She believes that everyone is born with the power to communicate with other species, and that although it is long lost for many people, it can be regained for the benefit of all beings on earth. Please join me in welcoming the one and only Penelope Smith. Hi.
Penelope: Hi. Thank you. Great to be here. Thank you. Yes.
Gissele: Thank you for being on the show.
I’m so thrilled to have you on the show. This is a topic I’ve definitely been wanting to talk about, especially around a compassion to and from animals.
I was wondering if you could start by telling the audience, how did you discover that you had this incredible gift?
Penelope: Well, it was always a part of me. I always loved animals. It’s very natural for kids. To just gravitate to animals until they’re stopped by other humans. You really can’t keep children away from animals.
And for me, [00:04:00] I was aware of who I was, my nature as a spiritual being, why I came in and who everybody else was. So the animals, I recognize them as fellow spiritual beings. And I communicated with them, they communicated with me. I got their thoughts and their feelings. They got my thoughts and feelings, no problem.
And when people said or tried to discourage me that it was my imagination or it didn’t exist, I just decided, no, you know what? I’m gonna keep this. This is just too good. I love animals. And I just was not. So much into people pleasing. Yeah. You know, I came from a, a abusive background and so the animals were kind of my lifeline.
You think I was gonna let go of, of them who understood me, who were kind and loving and we had fun together, including wild animals. And so I just decided, okay, I’ll keep it under wraps. You know, when [00:05:00] kids made fun of me, I went, okay, here we go again. I’ll just keep it to myself. I didn’t know when I was young that, oh, I’m gonna be an animal communicator when I grow up kind of thing.
No, there was no such thing. But I just said no. Well, it’s a natural ability. I’m not going to give it up. What’s the price of giving it up? Severe loneliness.
Gissele: Yeah. And it’s, it’s so amazing that you found that connection with animals. especially if the people in your life weren’t necessarily supportive. And it’s so amazing that you were able to hold on to your gift rather than allow other people’s judgment and fear, basically. if they haven’t had that experience to, to change that.
And so I think this is why you’re the pioneer in this work.
Penelope: You know, it’s hard because humans are social beings. we’re all social beings and we want our parents and people around us to approve of us, especially when we’re young [00:06:00] and we’re growing and everything. So, but I was very spiritual and I just recognized the spiritual nature of things.
And so it was easier for me to let go of the more social things. Of course, definitely I had wounds and scars from the childhood I had, which was not filled with love to say the least. but you know, that was part of my mission too, was to heal those, turn those into love to help all other beings.
And that’s always been my guidance throughout my life. Okay. Everything we do to turn everything into compassion and loving kindness helps all beings on earth, past, present, and future. And that goes for humans and all species. But as we know, humans need the most help. Humans are the ones who forget who they are and need a really, need compassion more than anybody.
I mean, compassion should be our middle [00:07:00] name, but I. Humans really need it because we get so messed up
our disconnections and our hurts and our woundedness and our mental orientation that we lose our way. And so having compassion for humans who are hurt and wounded and acting it out well, that’s what the animals do for us.
You know? They give us that compassion and they go, yeah, you got it hard. Come play with me. You know? Come learn what it’s like to just live in your body and enjoy it. That’s what the animals show us. You still recognize yourself as a spiritual being, playing a game in a particular experience, a species or whatever form of body that you have.
Gissele: I really appreciate you saying that because. It’s so funny what we consider reality, right? Like I know many people that don’t believe that animals have souls in the same way that we do. Like there’s this misconception that there’s [00:08:00] this hierarchy of Yeah, like value or consciousness.
Can you tell us a little bit about what you’ve discovered in terms of whether or not this is true?
Penelope: Well, that, that always blows me away, that even very spiritually aware people will go on and on about humans being special and different than everybody else, and the animals don’t know anything, but I go, they don’t know they’re speaking from ignorance because they haven’t communicated with the animals.
It’s just like when you have humans who say a certain race or a certain sex orientation or whatever is inferior. Okay, why? They are not communicating with those beings. They’re finding out who those beings are. They’re not connecting soul to soul and finding out what their plan is for their life.
Well, if you can’t do that with animals, then you don’t know them. You have no basis to say they are ignorant. You have [00:09:00] no basis to say they are less conscious. Then you start communicating with them, which more and more researchers are doing, you know, they’re finding the consciousness in the trees and in all the plants and animals that they can consider lower beings, they’re now finding.
So there’s complex communication systems here. There’s complex awareness, there’s emotion, there’s decisions. Realize that when I was young, nobody would dare say that animals had any kind of awareness of who they were or that they could make decisions or that they even had emotions. You know, blows you away.
But there’s still holdouts in the spiritual world who do not recognize the consciousness of all life. But if you go back to indigenous people and they’ve got it. Mm-hmm. They’ve got it all, you know, you just go back through history with all the indigenous people, including those now, and they hold that all life is [00:10:00] conscious, all life lives and breathes in its own way.
Whether it’s an animal, a rock, a mountain, a river, the air, it’s all alive. It’s filled with the same substance that we all are with the same life force. Mm. And in fact, the particles of energy or matter that we call matter are all the same in every being. They’re, they’re all the same, they’re the same particles.
So what’s the difference? You know, I just go, wow, examine, talk to that other being and find out. As soon as you talk with other beings, all your judgements, your preconceptions, they start moving aside. Because as long as you’re really listening to the other being and accepting what they’re saying, you realize, oh, this is a living, breathing, thinking being.
Whether it’s a dog, a cat, a human, a mountain, this is a being who is conscious. [00:11:00] So I’ve seen a change, you know, I’ve been around for a while and I’ve seen a change over the, over the decades, how the consciousness of people has raised and raised and raised toward all life. So what people would regard animals and everything else as things including themselves.
I mean, really they treated each other as things also. Yeah. Now there’s so much more consciousness, so it keeps growing. So I go those holdouts in the spiritual, consciousness movement. I go, they’ll wake up too. I’ve seen some of them, I’ve seen some of them change. I won’t mention names, but I’ve watched their, their evolving consciousness of the life of all beings.
Suddenly they’ll have this awareness, oh my goodness. They’ll be in meditation or they’ll take some plant medicine and they’ll go, oh my goodness, I’m getting what the ancestors have communicated that we all are one [00:12:00] life. But they’re feeling it. See, it’s not just a concept. They’re actually feeling it throughout their bodies, through their whole energy.
They’re feeling the connection and that changes everything. Mm-hmm. So then they start communicating and you know, many of them will have spontaneous telepathic experiences, you know, everybody can tap into it. Again, with our socialization, we have barriers. We have mental barriers, we have ideas that get in the way.
So learning what it’s all about, what telepathic communication is about and opening to it. Sometimes it’s hard for people who are very mentally oriented.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Agreed. And
Penelope: then for people who love animals, sometimes their own desire gets in the way. They get so intense that they don’t relax. Mm-hmm. And let it in.
You know, they go, I gotta have it. I gotta have it. I love animals so much, I gotta get their communication. You know? So I’ve seen that over and over again. They get in [00:13:00] their own way with their tension. You know, really, this is a very relaxed thing. The, the energy, the communication just flows through all of us.
And so to tap into that requires certain ways of being. And again, all the spiritual masters know about this and the ancestors, the ancient ones, the indigenous peoples. They talk about all these states of being. How do you get in touch with yourself? Same way. So there we go.
Gissele: thank you so much for that.
I, I think the level to which we can connect also depends on the level that of connection that we have with ourselves. ’cause it requires a level of presence. And it’s so funny, and, and let me know your thoughts. I do feel that animals have helped us get here in the sense of, you know, before we didn’t know much about animals, let’s say take whales or dolphins.
They were persecuted and hunted. And then we brought them in, into these aquariums and, you know, we grew to love them. And [00:14:00] then realized, wait a minute, this is inhumane to keep these animals that are traveling like, you know, miles and miles every day and to keep them in this tank. And now you have this movement towards freeing these animals and ending all zoos
It seemed to kinda had to go through that journey, it seems. What are your thoughts about that? and what are the animals’ perspectives on that?
Penelope: Well, what I’ve learned the most from telepathic communication with animals, and I would say the number one lesson that I learned from animals over and over again is compassion.
They are extremely compassionate for our dilemma. That’s why so many animals come up to help us. Even wild animals, you know, our, obviously our domesticated animals you know, have made a pact over the centuries to be with us and help us. We need a lot of help. Mm-hmm. You know, I have a thing that I tell people that I think you’d enjoy.
You know how they have this pyramid where humans are at the top and everything [00:15:00] else is lower? And I go, yeah, it’s a pyramid. We need the support of every other species, every other being underneath. if you took away those beings, we on the top of that pyramid would fall down and without the the conscious connection, we do fall down.
We fall off, we tumble down. And Native Americans, native peoples around the world recognize this. You call on the animals for help. You get the powers of the animals. You ask them for their powers so that you can find your way in this world as a human so that you can remember who you are. You recognize the spiritual nature of all life, and you ask it for help.
Mm-hmm. You know? So I see that the animals have been there helping us all the time. It’s us again. Not again, you can trace it back with indigenous peoples and other [00:16:00] groups where they honored animals and they respected them and they called them in. You know, they call them into help, but then there’s the majority in our Western world who just go along in their unconsciousness or on their computers or wherever else they are rolling around in their heads and really don’t have a good connection with what is around them.
And so you talked about earlier how we have to have a connection with ourselves. Yes. You know, I mean, one of the things that I do when I’m teaching people is that your closest animal friend is your own human body. Human body is a, an animal body, your closest animal friend. So get in touch with that body because if you don’t and you ignore that, guess who else you’re gonna ignore?
The trillions of other beings, you won’t be able to connect well with them. The more you honor and connect well and take care of this animal, you also then take care of the [00:17:00] other animals. and you see this over and over again. When people are eating poorly or they’re overeating or they’re eating junk food, their animals are also obese.
Why? Because they’re feeding the animals the same things. They have the unconsciousness about what is healthy for them and their animal friends. They clean up their own diet. They wanna feed the same good things to their animal friends. I’ve seen this over and over again as a very health conscious person.
Obviously, I’m a a maniac at feeding the best things for my animal friends. But it, it just, it just follows. I mean, you wouldn’t give them junk if you’re conscious that it’s not healthy. So all this consciousness of who we are, the animals help us over and over again. I, I tell people, notice, do your animals stare at you.
And people, almost everybody raises their hands. If we’re in a live audience, they raise their hands. Yeah. Yeah. I said, because they’re communicating with you. You, you may not be getting it. So they’re zeroing in, [00:18:00] they’re putting their intention across and they’re going, can you hear me? I need you to do this, or I need you to wake up, or I need you to let me go out.
Or whatever it is, is, yeah, that it is. They’re communicating, but they’ve been there all along. The more we recognize them as fellow beings, fellow spiritual beings, the more they can open up to us. Because if we don’t see, if we don’t hear, if we don’t get their communication, well pretty soon they’re gonna go, well, what’s the point?
So they go into their world and they, they go, okay. All the human understands is when I bunk at the door or I pee on the floor, they understand that. Okay, so I guess I have to do that. They don’t, they don’t get the soul to soul, heart to heart, mind to mind, connection. So I’ll do this, but as people wake up, then their animals can expand.
The animals brighten up. They go, oh, there’s a whole other level of communication open between my human and I now, [00:19:00] wow, this is fun. And now we can act together differently. So you grow, they grow, you grow together. it’s an incredibly beautiful thing. And along with the communication, compassion increases.
Totally. I mean, there’s no doubt about it. The animals are with us on the journey, the plants, the trees, the mountains, the rivers, they’re all with us on the journey. The more we tune into them, the happier we get more fulfilled. We feel in our lives, the more loving and gentle and, and soft life gets, you know, it’s not so hard at the edges.
We’re not struggling and fighting and competing, which is the order of the day, you know, for, for most people. You know, it’s how they operate and I wish it to be different. You know, I wish, well, I
Gissele: think you, using the pyramid is probably the most effective example because it’s kind [00:20:00] of lonely at the top, right?
Like there’s less connection, less everything at the top. And then you have all of this network below that is connected And as you were speaking, I think the more that you’re speaking, the more I realized, I think we would feel less lonely if we, if we realized how much support and connection we have in this world.
Yeah. I think we would definitely start to realize just how everything has been created to support each other. Because like you said, we’re all one source. The one question that I did have, and you’ve already answered it, but I wanted to talk about it, is insects, right?
we kind of have this relationship with insects, with where they’re seen as kind of enemies and pests, right? And I kind of did this experiment, but I wanted to know your thoughts. So I had heard about you and your experiences and every year we get like a whole bunch of ants and a whole bunch of flies and a whole bunch of like those ladybugs that are not really ladybugs.
And I decided to communicate with the [00:21:00] ladybugs and, actually at one point I felt a lot of love for the, little Beatles. And then they just kind of went away. I. But I had a different approach with the ants because I was in fear and so I was trying to communicate with the ants, but I was like threatening.
I was like, if you come back, I’m gonna have to kill you. because my family’s gonna poison you and they don’t want you. And I had that fear base of like, you know, if you see the ones with the wings and they’re gonna, you know, carve into your wood and then that’s gonna be like a big thing.
And so I approached it with that. Not only did they not leave well, my family ended up killing some of them. They launched an attack. We ended up having so many and I was like, oh, that didn’t work. And I kind of was reflecting on how I approached both. Different groups differently, right?
Yeah. So I was just curious as to your thoughts about how we can communicate with those. Well, look at, I
Penelope: mean, you already know. I mean, that fear just, you attract what you fear. So if [00:22:00] you’re going around in fear or you’re projecting this anger, ’cause you, it was not only fear, but you were protecting anger.
You do this or you’re gonna be in trouble. Yes. Yes. And that anger, that’s a lot of energy. And so it stimulates a response.
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Penelope: And you had the opposite with the little Beatles. You went into a space of love and everything dissolved. The resistance dissolved, and there was no longer any game there. You weren’t creating any game.
But with the ants, you went, okay. And ants, you know, I would say to people, people look to other animals, mammals as, oh, well, they’re similar to us. Primates are similar. I said, look at ants. I said, ants have. Big communities, they’re completely social. They require and rely on their communication with each other just like we do.
I mean, they have their ant wide web. Mm-hmm. [00:23:00] I mean, it’s big and they also have wars. They have wars on other colonies of ants. You don’t mix ants. You know, I mean there’s all things. You start investigating ants, and I think you will find even more similarities. They also take care of their wounded, you know, they take off their wounded when there’s wars or if somebody’s injured, they take ’em back.
I mean, there’s so many similarities to humans. It are very complex. Their societies are extremely complex. But people don’t see that because they don’t communicate. You start communicating with them, and boy, you will be enlightened. These are wise, incredible, intelligent beings who are also have so much similarities.
So you wanna, you wanna wage a war on ants? Good luck. I, there’s nobody that can win a war on ants. Well, I learned that the hard way, but then I asked course [00:24:00] poison everything. Then you poison yourself in the earth. And yeah, no. So
Gissele: in the end, we ended up not doing that. We, I ended up having a different sort of communication.
You know, I asked for help to communicate. Yeah. So that it could be harmonious. And now, oh, great. It’s all good. Yeah. But the what that showed to me, and, and maybe you can give me some perspective on this, is that fear and that anger and frustration came from my doubt. I did not believe. That I was in fact communicating.
Let’s, let’s be completely honest. Yeah. I didn’t know how to get through that doubt. And I had more to lose from an ant invasion in terms of like, you know, like the, belief that those carpenter ants are gonna eat through my wood and there’s gonna cause damage and it’s gonna, so I couldn’t get past the doubt that I was in fact communicating, even though I very clearly heard from the ants.
’cause they were very busy. Like, I could hear, I’m busy, I’m busy, I’m [00:25:00] busy. Yes, yes. Yeah. I’m like, okay, is that really, is that me or is that, am I projecting my perspective? So how do we get through the doubt that we are in fact communicating? And it’s not just our heads.
Penelope: Well, you try it, you, you keep practicing and you see the results.
Like you saw results. Yeah. And so you look at that and then you do it again and keep doing it with various species. See what happens. You, recognizing, I mean, you’re very conscious, so you recognizing your doubts, you recognize you had fear and anger. A lot of people do not. there’s a place to get in before you start communicating, which is the peaceful, centered place where you’re grounded with the earth.
Okay? Then you can communicate with the ants as equal beings rather than this, you know, fury who’s out of control. You know, you can communicate as fellow beings and then they’ll tell you the scene. They’ll say, well, we have to live too. They might, you know, I mean, [00:26:00] they can say all kinds of things We have to live too, and we need to chew on wood or whatever.
I just make deals with them. You know, we communicate and I say, well, I need to protect my house, so I’m gonna put this cedar oil all around as a barrier or diatomaceous earth, or some, it’s some, I use non-toxic things. I’m gonna put it as a barrier because I need to protect my house. I really don’t wanna kill you guys kill.
So just there it is. You know, I need to do what I have to do. I understand you need to do, and I respect your life, your colonies, your living on the earth. And sometimes it’s hard, you know, because then sometimes the ants bite you. I mean, I have these big ants harvester ants. Who I have to be very careful ’cause I’m a gardener and they get very active and they’re also, they’re sting when they bite.
Oh my gosh. It’s like a bee sting, you know, it lasts this big well and it itches like men and it lasts a long time. Okay. So I don’t always see that they’re [00:27:00] around, you know, I’m busy with the gardening. I’m not watching for every ant and they’re crawling up my legs into my pants and oh my gosh. You know, once they bite.
So, you know, I have to be more conscious. they’re just going, well, there’s the big feet there, the big unconscious feet. Okay. I’ll wake them up, I’ll let them know you’re stepping on our trail. You’re stepping on a whole bunch of ants. You know, so they let me know and I go, right, okay.
So I woke up and now I’m more careful. I look around. Okay. After rain, they’re very busy. I know that. So I watch, you know, ’cause I gotta restore their homes underground. And, I said, well, help me to be more conscious. Could you kinda, I, I’d like your help.
Send me a message if I’m just walking around and I don’t see you. And I suddenly go, oh, there’s ants underneath me. You know, so we can work in a harmony about it. And, and you know, [00:28:00] sometimes it’s hard for people because they wanna build in certain places and you got the fire ants and, you know, and some people don’t wanna kill them.
Other people just wanna wipe them all out. I’ve had long communications and some of them are very willing to move and others are not. And they’ll go Humans, who do you think you are? This is our home. You know, we’re not moving. And then others will say, well, we can move part of our colony, but you know, it doesn’t work with humans.
I want everybody to go, you know, I mean, humans always have to have it their way kind of thing. ’cause they think that they’re the rulers. And it really doesn’t work that way because you look at it, if we kill ourselves off with our ingestion of plastic and every other form of pollution and animals will survive, mother Earth will do the cleanup.
And many, many animals, particularly insects, will survive and restore the earth. You know? So who are [00:29:00] you talking to? These are the beings that are making the world go round the microorganisms, the insects. Mm-hmm. They make everything go round. Who are you talking to that they should move? So I work out deals with them.
Gissele: You know? Yeah, I love that. and I think what you’re talking about is living in harmony with all beings, which we don’t tend to do. It’s so funny. I was contemplating if I had maybe gotten stung, my reaction probably would’ve been like, oh, you know, like, we gotta get them out, or we gotta wipe them out because what if I got stung again?
Whereas your response was, oh, okay, I have to be more conscientious. how can I deal with this more in harmony? And I think that goes to show how human beings ’cause of our fear and our desire not to experience any sort of suffering. We really go out of our way to try to control all of these things.
And we impinge ourselves and we other other [00:30:00] things. And this is why we have the world we’ve created. Yeah. All of these isms that happen are because of our othering.
You know, even if somebody isn’t interested in animal communication, I think your work helps us be more human. just more ourselves. And I think for that, I.
I think that’s incredible. it’s the connection. ’cause we have lost ourselves so much. You can see it in our wars. You can see it how we interact.
Penelope: Yeah. And it, it fills in a missing piece. You know, this is a terrible thing for people to be so disconnected. I mean, you see it in the mental illness.
You see it in all the different kinds of disease that people have. It’s just so much disconnection. Yeah. And when we step back, breathe, and relax with Mother Earth and all her beings, we find a different way. And again, I go back to the ancestors, and the current native peoples, the wisdom [00:31:00] that’s there.
And in the ancient texts and the ancient spiritual teachings. The wisdom is there on how to live on the earth. We aren’t some superior being. Yes, we have tremendous creativity. We have things we don’t even know about, what we can do with our bodies. And we have tremendous lack of foresight on what we do, you know, on the things that we do and the consequences.
And we pay for it. We don’t even know how we pay for it. Think people think disease just crops up like it’s an anomaly or it just happened. And I go, well, you know, there’s causes behind these things. You do this, this happens. You eat this, this happens. You put poisons in. This happens. You live under stress.
This happens, you know? And a lot of people just don’t see the connection between their [00:32:00] own actions. And so I feel like. The more connection we can get. Like even people that aren’t interested in the communication, if you just look at that fly, okay, the fly lands on your hand, observe them. They’re remarkable.
They’re amazing. And people think they’re so dirty, they’re washing themselves all the time. Did you ever watch a fly? They’re constantly washing themselves.
Gissele: Yeah. And
Penelope: you know, I remember I had a, a rat companions, domesticated rats, and they were just incredible. They taught me right away. I, I picked them up and they said, oh, oh, the oils on my hand.
They said, you’re so dirty. Oh, that. And they started washing their fur. You’re so dirty. And I love that laugh because people think rats are so dirty. Mm-hmm. And I kept going, oh, oh, it feels so terrible. Can’t you do something about your hands? And I said, really? Even if I [00:33:00] wash them, I have these oils I carry.
Things and the rat adjusted, you know, my rat companion adjusted said, okay, I got it. You’re kinda greasy and we have to clean ourselves. But I won’t be so frantic about it. You know,
Gissele: I had a dog that was really smelly ’cause he had like different allergies and I was imagining him thinking the other way about us,
Penelope: Do you think, that. Souls incarnate into human beings and then animals and then different things,So souls have
their, they have their choices now. I’ve communicated with a gazillion beings that have gone on.
I’m very aware of my own past lives. I’m very aware that beings reincarnate and they have choices. It’s not like certain systems that say, again, humans are superior. Everything else is inferior. It’s a punishment it’s not, I remember one being said to me, why he was a dog.
He said, well, I’ve been human many times before, but, you know, I wanted to have a lifetime where I [00:34:00] could really live the love, where I could completely express my love. I could be completely in love and express it and have it accepted. And now I can do that and I can completely love and smile and everybody smiles back at me and I’m full of love.
I feel complete and it kind of gave me the picture of the dog as being superior. Now, the dog didn’t think this, but I looked at it and I go, well, that’s a higher state or a bigger, wider state of being is to be completely in love while you’re incarnate. Mm-hmm. You know, in the state of love, in the state of love all the time, even while you’re running around and scratching your fleas and eating your food.
All the things that we have to do as physical beings, the love is always there. And I just went, well, that’s what we learned from dogs.
Gissele: Yeah. That’s why [00:35:00] it’s like, dog spell backwards is God like Yeah. Are you a vegetarian? Are you a vegan? can you consume animals and still kind of have that love and compassion for them?
Penelope: Well, I, communicate with my animal body just as I communicate with other bodies. And I give my body what it needs to be healthy at earlier places in my life, if I didn’t have meat, I would get very shaky.
I would not be able to do my work. The amount of stress of traveling around the world teaching meat fortified me. And I would talk to the animals and they would say eat. I mean, I would have, sometimes I would not want to eat because again, I would not want to hurt animals. And at the same time, I would find myself followed by this cow.
I would see the cow wherever I went. I said, okay, I got it. I got it, thank you. And I, when I ate the cow, it was like manna from heaven. My whole body [00:36:00] was like filled with strength, with energy and it was the right thing. And I thank the cow. And again, this is similar to how native peoples do it. I thank the cow.
Yeah. Yes, I understand the system. I understand the factory farming and horrendous. And at the same time, we have to take care of our animal forms. So as my body has changed, my life has changed. I’m not running around the world, I’m not doing what I used to do. And also my body has changed hormonally.
Obviously I’m older, I have needed less. So I’m pretty much vegetarian. You know, again, there’s times where body wants a little fish or wants a little of this or a little of that, but very little. I also worked as a holistic energy balancer and I worked with nutrition and I saw that bodies changed all the times.
Humans are omnivores, obviously. You look around the world, humans eat everything and they can’t survive, especially [00:37:00] in cold climates without eating. Animal. So I looked at it and I went, you know what? All animals eat to be healthy now. Humans eat unconsciously, you know, eat junk food that kills us and all this kind of thing.
Mm-hmm. More conscious you get, if you eat consciously to be healthy, your diet will change over your life. But you don’t see animals denying themselves what they need. The raccoon doesn’t go, oh, well I shouldn’t eat this little bird. No, I’m gonna eat this little bird and then I’m also gonna eat plants and I’m also gonna eat this.
You know, because it’s good. And it’s what, let’s say, God has given me, you know? Mm-hmm. The divine, the order of life has given me. Mm-hmm. But we do so much unconsciously. If people ate consciously, you would have very little meat eating compared to what there is now. [00:38:00] Much of the meat eating that is done, is done out of habit, is done out of unconsciousness.
It’s done out of advertising. Yeah. You know, and if people were more conscious. You would, you know, if you look at the longest lived people in the world, like the, the Hanza and other people who lived very simple lives, of course they exercised a lot too, but they ate little bits of everything. So they ate a little bit of goat and a little bit of yogurt and lot of plants and, you know, but it wasn’t this unconscious kind of thing.
They ate according to what they grew, according to what they raised. Again, I’ve talked with animals. I’ll just give you a conversation that will illustrate how animals have enlightened me on the subject. And I’ve written very consciously and truthfully in my books about it. And some people will will come up very righteously and say, oh, you’re a killer.
You’re a this. I said, well, you know, [00:39:00] we have to kill to live. You know, you’re killing plants. Plants are just as alive as animals. Yeah. Mm-hmm. They feel as much as animals. And people go, oh no, no, that’s not true. Well, communicate with them and you’ll find out, okay, all animals and plants have to kill to live.
I mean, it’s part of life. It’s all enmeshed in. So I’ll tell, I’ll tell you what this rabbit taught me. I was teaching in Switzerland. I was on this farm and we were holding the class at the farm. And so there were cows and there were horses and there were all different kinds of farm animals, which was very beautiful.
I really love being around all kinds of animals. And there were also rabbits. And my first thing was, wow, what beautiful rabbits. And, and I thought, because I have animal companions had animal companions who are rabbits. I first thought, oh, they’re companions. And I went, wait a minute. No, there’s a whole bunch of cages and it’s in the [00:40:00] barn.
these are food rabbits. Okay. So they were beautiful rabbits. I mean, their cages were immaculate, filled with beautiful hay. Everything was pristine. We’re in Switzerland, you know, I mean, they’re taking, they’re taking good care and it’s pristine, definitely. Okay? Mm-hmm. So I decided, I would talk to the rabbit about how he felt about being a food rabbit.
’cause it was real obvious he was a food rabbit. So I said to him just asked him about his life. He said, my life is so good. People take such good care of me. I have. And, and he could see out he out of his cage, which again, there were a lot of cages, little hutches little cages next to each other.
They were wooden with wire. And he could look out. I can look out every day. And I watch the wild rabbits and I watch how they always have to be on guard and they struggle and they usually have a very short life. I watch them get taken by hawks. I don’t have any of that problem. I get to lead this beautiful life of meditation, you know?[00:41:00]
Mm-hmm. Where I’m taking care of. And then my death is very swift. And I said, oh, okay, I understand that. And then the rabbi said to me, and you too, will be eaten. And I said, oh, what do you mean I, I’ll be eaten? I, I mean, I’m not, I’m not a food animal. You’re like, what’s happening in Switzerland that I don’t know about?
Yeah. No, I didn’t think of that, but I’m going, wait a minute. So the, the rabbit said, no, you two will be eaten. And then I saw it. My body will be eaten by microbes. It’ll be given back to the earth. It will all fall apart as nutrients. It will go back into basic nutrients, giving back to all the animals, all the plants, all the earth.
There is nothing that doesn’t get eaten. I got it so clearly. And, and again, the rabbit showed me and told me about it’s, it’s how your life is. That counts. And so I always gauge our systems of killing animals by that [00:42:00] directive. Okay. Yeah. Do they get to live a good life? So when you’re talking about regenerative agricultures and the cows are all out on beautiful pastures and they get to raise their babies and they get to live a good life, okay, that’s a life.
Okay, then we have to deal with the factory farming. Now that’s something humans do and the amount of it is just really abominable. But why is the amount abominable? Because people aren’t eating consciously. I really do feel if people, ate consciously, you would find mm-hmm. A lot of people. Getting in tune with their health again, that’s a long shot because people are not interested in their health.
They’re just eating their horrible food and, dying horrible deaths from cancer and every other thing because of their unconscious. Okay. But the people who want to be conscious, you start to be conscious and you’ll eat differently, but you may not be vegan. Even [00:43:00] being very conscious, you may not be vegan because your body is telling you, I need this amount.
Somebody pointed out to me that the Dalai Lama has doctors advised him for his health to eat some meat. Now, this was not part of his spiritual orientation, but it was part of, let’s look at it. The spiritual orientation is the whole thing. Our bodies, our whole being is all part of it. Yeah. So I may kind of go, yes, there are contradictions in our human life.
Yes. Who would want to kill animals? Mm-hmm. You know, or hurt them.
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Penelope: But again, I’ve learned a lot of different things from people who hunt from animals who hunt and what killing is and what it isn’t. And I juggle all these things together and just do for myself what will help me to be healthy. And again, I’m really [00:44:00] happy at this time.
’cause I tried to force myself to be vegetarian at one point in my life. And I really did not do well. I went for seven years and I was getting less and less energy, feeling bad. Mm-hmm. And I, I talked to the animals, the plants, and They started me with Eat from the Sea. And I said, well, you mean like sea vegetables?
You know, no, no sea vegetables. We mean the ones that swim in the sea. And then they started showing me pictures of cows, you know, and then I got much stronger. So, you know, I just go, I cannot ignore my animal body. I understand there are billions of animals being killed. This requires an effort from all of us.
It’s not just one person. And again, if we scaled our meat eating way back, we would still be healthy for those who who need meat to be healthy.
Gissele: Hmm.
Penelope: And we would have a whole different [00:45:00] system. You wouldn’t have to have the factory farming. You know, I’ve learned so much from animals who are killed consciously by conscious people who actually love them and raise them healthily and then kill them.
I’ve learned from them it’s a whole different experience than when you’re, let’s not even talk about picture factory farming. It’s horrendous. So, as I said in my book, when animals Speak, I, I said to me, the focus should be on, let’s change the way we treat animals in their whole lives. Let’s change the whole system.
And then we have to raise the consciousness of people, not by just telling them it’s bad, or you’re bad, or, or it’s wrong or you are wrong. But by raising the consciousness of what your own body actually needs, not by habit, not by advertising. By what it actually needs. And you’ll find that a lot of how [00:46:00] people operate in feeding their body is by addiction.
The sugar, the meat, the alcohol, the all the rest. A lot of it is addiction. So that’s, we’re talking a long way to raise the consciousness of many, many beings. But I think education is the way, not beating people over the head and telling them they’re wrong, but education is the way. And again, at this stage of the game, I’m very grateful that I have to eat very, very little animal.
Gissele: Mm.
Penelope: Yeah. To be healthy. But I’m at a whole different stage in my life. I couldn’t have done it earlier on when it was menstruating and Yeah. You know, when my whole needs were very, very different. In fact, you know, my family tends to on the female side, tends to be anemic. Mm-hmm. Without meat. Yeah, pretty much dodging a bullet, you know?
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, for
Gissele: sure.
Penelope: So, so again, everybody’s different and I learned that as a health counselor, everybody was so different and they were different [00:47:00] when they had diseases, and as they got better there, there were different, and their diets need to change. So I can’t go one size fits all. I understand how people can get very absolute, but I find that absolutes really don’t work real well.
It’s the duality. This is wrong, this is right. You know, this is what causes our conflicts and our wars. Mm. And so if we go into more of let’s, how do we balance it? Just like we talked about the ants. Well, how do we balance it? I need to put some oil, cedar oil around my house or diatomaceous earth. ’cause I need to protect my house.
Okay, you guys, you got all this space. I respect that. Oh, but I need to do what I have to do. Can we get along great? We get along. They don’t invade the house. You know, I mean, the whole thing. It works. So can we work out some kind of balance with this? You know, there’s, there’s organic agriculture. People think that animals aren’t killed and, and when they’re eating plants, you are responsible by eating plants for the life of millions of animals who are [00:48:00] run over by tractors, who their homes are taken away.
Babies that aren’t seen getting enmeshed. All the animals you’re eating in your food. People don’t realize there’s tons of insects in, in your plant food and mixed to your grains. If you’re talking about flour, For Pete’s sakes. You know, insects aren’t meat. Well, who are they’re animals, you know?
Mm-hmm. They’re not plants. Mm-hmm.
Gissele: So,
Penelope: you know, we have to look at it sort of in a balanced way, and yes, there are a contradiction and yes, we have to learn to live with death, you know, to make life as good as possible and eliminate as much suffering as we can as possible. That’s a compassionate way. And there aren’t absolutes.
I can’t walk through li life without hurting somebody. You know? I’m stepping on ants. I’m, my own body is killing microbes constantly just to keep healthy. It’s killing parasites. Microbes is killing off its own cells, you know, just. [00:49:00] How can I be different if I’m living with this body? How can I be different?
No. I’m subject to the cycles of life and death, as is every other animal, as is every plant, as is every mountain, as is the air itself. it’s complex. It’s not yes or no. And yet I get with many people saying, well, I’m not, I’m not talking to you again, or I’m, I’m not gonna read your books if you’re not this way.
I go, well, I’m sorry. I have learned a lot from talking with animals and I don’t just side with the animals who eat plants. I am on the side of everybody. You know that. I love that the carnivores were dripping blood and my cats who, who will, will tell me how good blood tastes. I’m not rejecting them.
Gissele: I think you made so many important and powerful points. I mean, you’re talking about living in harmony, right? Yeah. Like not overeating, [00:50:00] not over consuming you know, living in harmony with nature. And you’re right, nature does have a cycle. Animals eat other animals. Like, that’s just part of nature.
So we’re honoring who we are. if people choose to be vegan or vegetarian, that’s their choice. But I love what you said about really asking your body what does it need and actually doing it from a place of honor, like my family makes fun of me. But I do say to my family members and say, I want the animal that we’re going to eat to have had a good life.
I want that positive energy and that love that they experienced to come through me, not animals that have been harmed or hurt. Yeah. And at the same time I also acknowledge that. Death isn’t really what we think. Right? I don’t know if animals perceive death the same way. we think that dying is the worst thing that could ever happen to us.
Whereas I think one of the things I learned from my dog [00:51:00] is that it’s like death is just sort of the next experience, right? Yeah. it’s a new different his death in particular had the worst impact on me, not on him. And I had a hard time letting go, so what have you learned from the animals about their perspective on death?
Penelope: Well, take a look at it. We go on, the animals are aware of this. All beings are programmed to survive with bodies. All bodies. Yeah. Of all kinds, all bodies want to survive. We’re programmed. That’s, that’s the major program in our bodies. All the cells are saying, survive, survive, survive. How can we get healthy?
How can we live a good life? How can we, you know get through this disease, et cetera, et cetera. So everything is programmed to survive. So the rabbit runs away from the predator. Yeah. But when the predator comes down, the rabbit leaves the body and goes, okay, well that [00:52:00] body just fed a hawk. I’m going to be a rabbit again.
’cause I really enjoy it. Mm-hmm. And so immediately looks around and goes, may spend some time in the spiritual realm, but I find that animals who live short lives often, they’ll recycle very quickly and they look around and I’ve met rabbits over and over again. I live. with Desert Cottontails, and I know a lot of them, and I recognize them.
When they come back again, they say, here I am again. This little baby bunny comes up to me. Here I am again. I said, yeah. I remember when you left, you know, I found, I found their bloody body with the guts lying out. Mm-hmm. You know, and I’m glad you’re back again. But at the same time, that body fed a fox or a coyote or whoever it was meant to feed.
So they just let go. You know, again, a lot of the suffering is alleviated because they can let go. They just go, oops, that body’s gone. It’s not coming back. It’s damaged beyond repair. Okay. It’s feeding a coyote right [00:53:00] now. Great. I’m outta here onto the. Yeah. Onto the next chapter. And when you communicate with animals in the spiritual realm like your dog you know, all the animals that have, have gone on, they’ll give you a whole different perspective about how wonderful their life was, how grateful they are to you, how they wanna continue taking care of you.
They’re like your guardian angels now. They’re looking after you. They’re going, wow, that was a trip being a dog. And wow, I’m, now, I’m here expanded and full of joy. Now in our lives, and this goes for all animals, plants, nobody wants to suffer. Nobody wants to be tortured. There isn’t anybody, does anybody volunteer?
Okay, make me suffer. No. You know, this is not the usual thing If, if somebody volunteers for an experiment or something, they’re doing it for some greater purpose, or they’re helping another being. They know it’s gonna hurt, but they’re helping somebody else. Okay? That’s a whole different thing [00:54:00] then that alleviates your suffering right there when you’re doing service.
But let’s just look at it. We are all beings in this together. We are all going to give up our bodies at some point and be food for the earth. Whether it goes through other critters or whether it goes direct to the earth. We’re gonna be food for the earth. And that’s the way it’s, so how can we live in the most harmony?
So it’s a whole bunch of systems that can be changed. If that’s your calling to work on. Eliminating factory farming or first educating people on how they’re killing themselves with their food. You know, if they can learn how to be more healthy, they will eat a lot less of the animals. Definitely. I mean, I can guarantee that because you look at the longest lives, people, they don’t eat great amounts of anything.
They eat this, this in portions, you know, and it’s all regulated by the amount of exercise and everything. [00:55:00] It’s a balance with the earth. And so if we move in that direction, we move in communication. You learn a lot from the animals and talk to food animals, you know, people go, oh, have you talked to food animals?
It must be horrible. Well, it’s horrible if they’re waiting in line at a factory farm and they hear their fellow cows screaming, yes, that’s horrible. But it doesn’t mean their life was horrible, you know? But we have to change the part that is horrible. The part that makes it a long suffering and unconsciousness, which is very different than killing an animal strait.
Yeah. Oh yeah. You know for sure. I’ll just tell you a story. Yeah. This farmer who I talked to, he had, he had geese that he raised. Okay. So at Thanksgiving it was time to kill one of the geese for the dinner. So he said he loved his geese and they were [00:56:00] nice and well taken care of and nice and fat.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he said, so he got his axe and he went up to the geese and he said, and again, they were raised all sort of the same age and they were all very plump. And he said, who will come to be dinner? And the geese. Would lay their head down on the chopping block. Now this may sound very farfetched, but it’s not when you are in touch and he cut off their quickly, it’s done.
The other geese were not even traumatized because everybody was in a different kind of harmony. You know, another story from Findhorn, ’cause I knew Peter Caddy, who was a co-founder of Findhorn Garden in Scotland. And he would say that when it was time for the goats, and again they were they ate different kinds of animals, they would ask who is ready and
they would picture maybe a young fat goat or something like that. And that [00:57:00] goat would not come forward and said, no, it’s not me. I’m happy living right here. And another goat would come forward and they say, okay. And so there’s an honoring there. It’s a whole different thing. And Native Americans would go too, they would pray before they would do a hunt.
And they would say, please, we need food and clothing for our tribe who will come forward, who will be, able to help us. A whole different thing. And some people may still say, well, it’s still death, it’s still this. Well those are the absolutes. Let’s look at it. Death is a part of life.
Mm-hmm. You gotta face it in some form. All of us do. Mm-hmm. I’d rather go with how the animals who are free, you know, the wild animals have a lot to teach us on death and clean death and recognizing predators and being killed that it gets warped in domestication. And we’re domesticated animals. We’re not, obviously not wild [00:58:00] animals.
We’re domestic and it gets warped, very warped in domestication. So we need to learn how to unwarp it and get more. In the balance. Yes. There may come a day when we don’t eat anything, or we just breathe the air. I experimented with all these things. I went vegetarian, universe juice. I went fruitarian, I went Breatharian and Los Angeles almost died from pollution, and oh, I did all these things because I thought, well, okay, you know, I live on energy.
We’re all just energy bodies. Okay. I will tell you, I had to go back to eating again, especially living in Los Angeles, where mm-hmm. I was on the kind of air in the seventies was not what, I mean, it’s still dirty, but not like it was then. It was very bad. Yeah. So, whatever, you know, I did all these experiments, you know, I wanted to have the least impact, et cetera.
Yeah. And at the same time, I would’ve killed off my body, you know?
Gissele: You know, as you were talking, it made [00:59:00] me think of the animal that came forward. I got like a feeling of love, right? Like the animals love us so that they’re offering themselves
Yeah. That, that’s what sort of came across. I have friends who did a film it’s called Rescued Hearts, and they talk about the power of horses in helping people heal from trauma. I’m just wondering what your thoughts are around is it just a horse in particular or can other animals help us sort of address our trauma?
Penelope: Animals are very, very happy to help us. you just call upon them. There’s more and more animals that people are recognizing help us, and are supportive. And they look at us and people are now recognizing what that look is, that look of connection and love. And then the communication continues.
It’s a whole different thing. I really appreciated talking to you about the food thing because I don’t get to talk to too [01:00:00] many people publicly about this because it’s such a charged issue and people are into really making you wrong. Some people are, yeah. On the whole thing, and I just have learned so much from animals.
I keep thinking of all the lessons that they have taught me about the cycle of life and death, and I can’t ignore that. You know? It just, it has to be a part of the balance. Yeah. So thank you for listening.
Gissele: Oh, no, thank you so much for sharing that perspective. I’m so happy that you were so honest about it.
Penelope: You know, animals are also conscious. People keep thinking, well, they don’t know they’re victims. They don’t know anything about their life. They don’t know about the ending of their life. But no, you see, they have chosen somewhere along the line, even if they were unconscious, like humans being unconscious somewhere, they’ll find out that they chose every life, every life experience, and it has a purpose.
[01:01:00] Okay? So animals go, well, this is a meat body, but I really wanna be a cow. I wanna enjoy it. Okay, yeah. I’m gonna end up, you know, on the plate. But mm-hmm. Being a cow, it’s really a great experience. And yes, if they end up being rescued and they live on a farm with people, wow. I mean, that’s incredible. And at the same time, if they end up being killed, well, I’m not saying it’s a joyful thing.
but there’s something in there that, that being is learning. I’m not here to say what they’re learning, that’s their journey, but I respect their journey. At the same time, part of my journey as a human is to change the things that cause suffering, do my best. And for me it’s through communication to change those things that cause a being suffering that they didn’t want and didn’t really sign up for, but they learned from [01:02:00] it.
And they may never, be a that kind of cow again. Or it may be a path, a journey for them to learn, or it’s something for us to learn in relation. I mean, all beings are learning from each other. You know, all species learning from each other. beings are learning from each other.
But let’s change the journey. Let’s evolve it, you know, let’s evolve it to a higher place of balance for all beings. But again, I don’t have any quick and fast answers on it.
Gissele: Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, for sure. I really appreciated that. I think what you’re talking about is so important. I think one of the things that, that kind of keep coming out for me is I feel like the reason why people are so black and white about it is because we are afraid of death.
Yeah. We don’t wanna talk about death. We don’t want to deal with death. And so acknowledging that sort of death. Means thatwe would have to acknowledge and face our own mortality, which I think people are [01:03:00] afraid of. ’cause, you know, when you look about all of these systems, it’s just all based on disharmony, us not being who we truly are.
You know, greed, the fact that you don’t have any empathy for animals and you can just grind them up and, and just, it’s beyond me like that you could watch an animal suffer and, not feel something that only shows your own level of disconnection. my first experience was when I was very young.
I was, I think I was maybe 14, 15, went to a, a sea world. and they had dolphins and I had never seen a dolphin. And I was so excited. And they had a dolphin petting area. And I, as a 14-year-old, ran up to Pet the Dolphin ’cause I wanted to experience.
And everybody’s hands were in that tank and, and the animal had been sedated. And I went to put my hand in and I looked in its eye and it looked at me with so much suffering and I pulled [01:04:00] my hand and to watch all of those people just, they just, they were just there for themselves.
Like they were just, and, and no judgment on them because I, as a 14-year-old ran up, that animal looked me right in the eye and I thought, oh my God, what am I doing? What are we doing? How can we be so disconnected from our fellow beings that we can do that? And I couldn’t step in any one of those things again.
I. I think I went once when I was older because I felt pressure to take my kids, and I was like, what am I doing? I’m violating my own values. I can’t do this again. I also had to look at myself and how I was othering other beings, right?
Like, I, I killed the insects. I, you know, ate the animals. And so for me it’s like you said, it’s not so black and white. We have to really look at ourselves and choose to evolve and choose to love more, and choose to have more compassion, [01:05:00] even compassion for our history, right? Like, I think part of that rigidness comes from shame.
I historically, in the past, I didn’t eat consciously. I do now because I’m more aware thanks to social media, you see more, you are able to see how these animals are being treated. But before, as long as it was a cheaper steak or a cheaper chicken, then I was good.
’cause that met my needs. But now I can’t unlearn what I’ve learned. Yeah. I can’t not know that. I don’t want to eat animals that are suffering. I don’t want to, have that experience. That’s not who I choose to be. I think these conversations are so important and I am so grateful that you were so honest about, in your answer about, and enabled us to have this discussion and conversation.
’cause I think is, is very, very important. I wanted to this is a little bit more selfish. I wanted to go back to the whole concept of talking to animals who have crossed over. I think as I mentioned [01:06:00] before we started recording I’d lost my dog last November. And I think there’s an element of me that.
Doesn’t know how to, I talk to him all the time and he was my first animal. And there’s elements of me that I could have been a better dog mummy in so many different ways. And I think that’s very normal in general. Yeah. To, to want to have learned from the experience. But what can somebody do to open themselves up to speak to an animal that may have crossed over?
Penelope: Well, first of all, know that they are connected with you and you are connected with them. People disconnect and they go into their guilt. They run guilt trips on themselves. Oh, I could have done something different, or I could have been less impatient or blah, blah, blah. And here your dog friend is shining over you feeling this incredible love.
And so realize that as [01:07:00] soon as you think of them, they’re there, there are no limits in the spiritual realm. There isn’t a time limit, there isn’t a space limit. So you just think, and they’re there. So when you say you have conversations with them, you are having conversations with them. Acknowledge that good you are having conversations with them.
So have conversations, feel, but most of all feel them because they have gifts for you. They have gifts of that love and compassion and sweetness and expansion and spiritual reality. That they want to share with you and wisdom, they’re like guides for you. Now if you let them, they can help you.
So understand that it’s really a natural thing. You can only stop yourself. So, so people get of obviously naturally very much into their grief. All the stages of their grief. Understandable. And [01:08:00] if you can allow some space to honor your connection with your beautiful animal friend who is still there with you, then you will have a different experience.
I’m not saying you don’t have to go through emotion. This is part of the human journey. We go through our losses and emotions. Yeah. It’s part of the journey. You’ll feel it. If you don’t feel it, then you’re numb. You know? So you’ll feel it. And you can share with your animal friend. You can even say to them, yeah, I feel guilty that I didn’t, go to the vet 16 times.
I only went 15 times. Now, only spent $10,000 instead of $20,000. I feel guilty about that. It goes. And you, I was your smother mother. You don’t just going, it all doesn’t matter. I, well, I love you. I had such a beautiful life with you. We had a pact to be together. We grew together. We love [01:09:00] together. What could be better?
I just had a trip with you and I’m continuing my journey with you. I thank you for connecting with me. You know, they’ll be, they’ll be very happy too. They just want you to know how much they love you. Mm. So
Gissele: thank you for that. I,
Penelope: yeah. And I’ve written my book, animals and Spirit, I just put out a class on video, on connecting with your animals in spirit.
So there are ways to do it. And if you allow yourself, it helps. I’m not saying you won’t hurt, you know? Yeah. It’s the way it is. And you’ll evolve. You know, you’ll evolve with your animal friend and you’ll feel their comfort. There’s a gift when your animal friend goes to the spiritual realm. If you accept it, you’ll feel comforted, you know?
And then some animals go on, they reincarnate. Some will come back to you. Some have other journeys. [01:10:00] They need to go other places or be in a other species or stay in the spiritual realm longer or whatever it is. But some will come back to you and if you listen, you’ll find out. Mm-hmm.
Gissele: Yeah. And, and I think it’s important to be more present really focusing on listening and how to listen better because if you’re communicating with anyone listening is just as important as talking.
Yeah.
So a couple more questions.
So my first question is, what’s your definition of love?
Penelope: Love is a state of being that is natural to our consciousness. It is actually what we are made of.
Gissele: Mm-hmm.
Penelope: And it’s a, it’s an expansive state of being that includes all things. There is also love as an emotion that we feel as an emotion toward people. It’s a, it’s a giving and a taking kind of [01:11:00] thing, but I’m talking about love as a state of being where it encompasses everything. Mm-hmm. And I feel like it translates better because again, we have so many definitions of love translates be better as compassion, as inclusion.
As acceptance, because when you include and you have compassion and you’re accepting, what else do you feel about that state of love?
Gissele: Yeah.
Penelope: You know, so you sit there with people and just have compassion and acceptance. You can’t help but love them. Yeah. You feel that soul. And yes, they have all their contradictions as a human, as we all do.
And that’s okay too. You know, acceptance is a part of love. So that’s how it feels to me. You know, that love is actually a state that is natural to our being. That when we get centered in our being, when we get centered with the earth, with our bodies, that’s what we feel. That [01:12:00] open space that we usually can feel right from here, from the heart center right here is the vast cosmos.
that’s what love is to me.
Gissele: Oh, thank you for that. And last question. Where can people work with you? Where can they find you? Any offerings you might have in terms of courses, anything you wanna share with the audience? Oh yeah.
Penelope: Thank you. So my website is http://www.animaltalk.net, and you’ll find I’m giving courses, online courses.
I’m doing work with the Shift Network and there’s a big course coming up.
Find the Shift Course here.
You also have evergreen courses that you can do both foundation courses and more advanced courses. And I am not available for individual consultations. I have many offerings that help you to learn. Publications and all program using the publications.
And there’s a lot of free material on my website and on YouTube [01:13:00] that people get a lot of awarenesses of. I really feel like if you just watch the YouTube and read all the articles, you’d get it and you wouldn’t need anything else. But it’s nice to have a course, you know, and get training too.
Gissele: Yeah, yeah, yeah. For those people that need a little bit feel, they need a little bit more support. And there’s also your books as well that are available on Amazon, right?
Penelope: Yes. And books and the audio recordings and the videos,
Gissele: yeah. Yes, yes. All those things so that people could tap into your wisdom. which we need more of.
Penelope: I, would like people to be happy, you know? And how do you get happy? You connect. disconnection is a shrinking that hurts. Mm-hmm. And when we connect and we open and we feel the trees and the animals and other beings, it’s beautiful.
And that’s what I would wish for other people. And yes, you have to work on your own journey and your own shadow and all the, the good, the bad and [01:14:00] the ugly. Yeah. and face it. And it comes up for us all. As long as we have human bodies, we’ll have the human program and boy it is filled with everything.
Yeah.
Gissele: So true. So true. Thank you so much, Penelope, for being on the show and sharing your wisdom with us. This was an amazing conversation. I cried, I laughed. I had all the emotions. Thank
Penelope: you. You’re such a beautiful, sweet, loving person. It’s just a joy to connect with you. I feel like we’ve just spent time being friends together, so thank you.
Gissele: Me too. Me too. Thank you so, so much. I appreciate it. And thank you everyone who tuned into another episode of the Love and Compassion Podcast with Gissele. Have a great day.