Conversation with Scott
[00:00:00]
Scott: Hello and welcome to the Love and Compassion podcast with Gissele. We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives and our world.
Gissele: Don’t forget to like and subscribe for more amazing content. This year we’re creating an inspiring documentary called Courage to Love, the Power of Compassion, which explores the extraordinary stories of those who have chosen to do the unthinkable. Love and forgive those who have caused them deep harm.
Through their journeys, we will uncover the profound impact of forgiveness, not only to those offering it, but also those receiving it. we’ll hear from experts who will explore whether love and reconciliation are part of our human nature and how we can bridge divides with those we disagree with.
We are launching a fundraising campaign in March, offering incredible perks to our supporters. If you’re interested in our documentary, know somebody whose story should be featured, or would like to contribute financially, stay tuned. Speaking of divided, [00:01:00] today’s topic is about how to love others during divided times. Our guest today is Scott Stabile. He is a Breathwork Facilitator.
and author of the acclaimed motivational memoir, Big Love, The Undeniable Joy of Following Your Heart, the short prose collection, Enough As You Are, and the inspirational art book, Just Love.
A passionate love advocate, Scott is a compassionate and soulful storyteller, unafraid to dive deep into the human experience. Through his books, talks, personal empowerment workshops, and sub stack newsletter, Scott invites us to choose love even in the darkest times. to fully embrace our messy, beautiful selves.
He’s not just a teacher. He’s a fellow traveler navigating the hard, sacred work of being human. Please join me in welcoming Scott. Hi, Scott.
Scott: Hi [00:02:00] Gissele.
Gissele: I’m so
excited to have this chat, it feels like if we’re just living in such a divided world, it feels like we’re almost living in two separate worlds of people that are wanting to love and have compassion.
And then this other group that is maybe struggling with that. And it feels like we’re more divided than ever. I was wondering if you could start by telling the audience how you got into the work of love.
Scott: How did
I get into the work of love? I mean, I would say the most Honest answer is I was in a cult in the in the Bay Area in the 90s.
In my early 20s, I got involved with a spiritual teacher and a spiritual community. And the, you know, the teachings from my former guru were, you know, love, unconditional love, unconditional friendship. It didn’t end up turning out that [00:03:00] way when, I mean, it ended in a very dark way, which I won’t go into right now.
But when I reflect back on those times, I was really consumed with enlightenment in the possibility of becoming enlightened. That’s what I cared about the most. And what I saw as the path to enlightenment was love. and compassion and forgiveness and all of these beautiful energies that we know when we’re engaging with those energies we feel so much better.
And what I came to discover when I decided that I didn’t want to be a part of this community anymore and that when I was going to let go of chasing enlightenment, when I realized it’s not something that I could achieve, that’s not how enlightenment works. That I still felt called to be as loving as possible and as compassionate as possible.
Nothing, nothing changed about me other than my drive to become enlightened, which only created for me a lot of suffering and misery, [00:04:00] honestly. And when I could let go of that, I was able to just bring more acceptance to who I was and who I am in the moment, rather than needing to be a more evolved version of myself.
So that’s what really started me. Really seeing the healing power of love in our lives and really committing to being directed by that energy as much as possible because and it’s only because it’s not because I’m some selfless Buddha. It’s because it feels good to love and we know that it feels good to offer compassion to others.
It feels good to forgive all of these things. Things for me are the most beautiful way to feel, and I want to feel good, you know, as often as I can. So this is the path that I’ve chosen to create that possibility.
Gissele: I said so many powerful things. The first thing I want to tackle is I have found in my experience that there are many groups that kind of co opt the whole love and [00:05:00] compassion piece and use it for their own, it’s, it’s very similar to the whole concept of God and religion and, and how some of these messages are co opted for their own.
purposes, not for the purpose of love and compassion. Has that been your experience?
Scott: Well, if I, I feel like if I’m understanding what you’re saying, it’s the idea that there are any number of people out there preaching certain things who aren’t acting in alignment with what they’re preaching. Is that what you’re saying?
Gissele: Yes. Yes. Basically. So it’s like, it’s teaching that love and compassion is the way, but not towards those people. you can’t exclude certain groups if you’re going to teach love and compassion.
Scott: Yeah, absolutely. And, and honestly, Yes, 100%. I think we’re seeing that in all different ways across certainly in the US.
I know you’re in Canada in this country for sure. And in probably most countries around the world. But what I’m what I’m seeing, though, is it’s it’s from every direction, right? Like, I think it’s very easy to look upon. Look [00:06:00] at the people who are on opposite political in opposite political arenas than who we are and see them as the people who aren’t speaking up for love and compassion, right?
The, the laws they’re seeking to put into place or the way they’re talking about certain communities. It feels extremely devoid of compassion, right? And what I’m noticing and have been noticing is that those of us. Many of us who are, who are like compassion and love are being wildly dehumanizing and shameful toward those who aren’t speaking up for love and compassion in the way that they see as appropriate.
So it’s really coming from all directions. And I’d say, you know, honestly, for me, that’s been. One of the more disheartening aspects of the past several years is seeing whole groups of people with whom I felt deeply aligned show up in ways that for me are extremely ugly and not [00:07:00] anything I want to be a part of.
I’m not, I’m not interested. I’m, I’m clear about my convictions. generally speaking, I believe. And I, I know in politically speaking there, I’m much more progressive in my politics. That’s the, where I steer. And yet I don’t align with a lot of what I see in the, the progressive community because there’s so much dehumanization and, and shaming of those who don’t.
Feel the same way or believe the same things and I can connect to that because when I’m in my mind and when I’m in my ego, I am as dehumanizing and shaming as any other person on the planet and it doesn’t feel good. And I don’t believe it helps anything. So for me, the invitation is always, well, how can I get back into my heart?
And when I am in my heart and when I am aligning with the energy of love, what is that communication? And for me, that communication is always to find empathy and [00:08:00] compassion for other human beings, no matter how they’re showing up. And by doing so, that doesn’t, it doesn’t separate me in any way from my convictions or for what feels most important to me, or from what I’m going to talk about.
It’s simply. connects me to the deepest truth I know, which is that without love, healing cannot be created. You need love for healing. So that’s where my commitment lives.
Gissele: Yeah.
Scott: Yeah. What about you?
Gissele: I completely
agree. And I think that’s been one of the challenges. I’ve been interested in understanding love for a very long time.
First I did it in the way from, in terms of its absence, right? I worked with the child protection system, you know, child welfare to understand what the absence of love looks like. And so one of the things I’ve come to, to realize is that it really, if love is truly the answer as, as the spiritual teacher say it is, I have to be willing to love those that I deem unlovable.
Whose [00:09:00] behavior seems so hurtful and so just purposeful. I have to be willing to see their humanity so that they can see mine. I cannot use the same strategy and isolate them and other them that they’re doing. And that’s hard, Scott. It’s so hard. Because I think one of the things I’ve realized is that my trigger, one of my triggers has been injustice.
Like, when I see the little guy, I’m like, I got to fight for the little guy. But one of the things I realized is that that’s also disempowering for the little guy. That person has power. They have power. They always have power in their present moment
So feeling bad or sorry and all of that is disempowering, but it feels so hard, so hard to love during those moments. How do you do it?
Scott: I don’t always do it successfully. I’m just really committed to doing it. Like what I would say, one thing I want to say to what you just said too, is that I feel like if you’re, if in your heart, you’re feeling called to stand up [00:10:00] and, and be a voice.
For those you know, who are enduring the injustices, that’s a beautiful thing. I don’t think that that has to in any way be disempowering if your energy is about support and empowering others, right? I think it’s like what we bring to our activism is what we bring. That’s the energy we’re going to create.
And yeah, this is, I think hating people is easy, right? Like finding love. When it would be so much easier to just hate or shame is is some of the hardest work that we can do, and I guess for me, it’s about first and foremost understanding. I do not believe that someone is not worthy of love. That is just not how I.
operate. It’s not what I understand to be true. So I know that if I’m unable to access love in my heart for someone, no matter how abhorrent I find their words and actions, that there’s work for me to do because [00:11:00] I can only take responsibility and control how I’m showing up. And the example I’m setting, I profess myself to be this love activist, and I’m always talking about love and self love.
So how am I modeling that? And, and then also Gissele offering myself a tremendous amount of grace when I find myself caught up in the, the mental. struggle and the, just the judgment and I get lost in just the,
Gissele: you know,
Scott: like the thing that we all do.
Gissele: Oh my God.
Scott: Yeah. It’s part of the experience. It’s like, and, and also I don’t kind of, what I’m sitting with a lot right now is, is, is also recognizing that.
that when I am not in harm’s way in my own life immediately is when I really have the opportunity to really center in my heart and, and come from that place of love. I think sometimes when, when you’re in a [00:12:00] crisis situation and the, the, like You don’t have to worry about like, you’re worrying about surviving.
Like the last thing you need to be worrying about is finding love and forgiveness for the people who have put you in this crisis situation. But when I’m not is when we can, those of us who aren’t, that’s when we can really hold space for this energy because it’s this energy of compassion and empathy that’s going to create real healing in our world.
It isn’t what we’re seeing. It’s not the, the division and the screaming and the hatred. That’s not, that’s just going to lead us to another version of what we’re all trying to extricate ourselves from already, you know, so I just. I’m just a big fan of like, how am I showing up? How can I be more loving?
How can I honor what feels most true to me? How can I maintain my commitment to recognizing the humanity in every other human being? This is why I feel I’m here in the world. And so, [00:13:00] and this is where I feel the most at home in myself. So I’m just going to keep working at it and struggle through it when I’m like feeling hateful and nasty.
Gissele: I just want to point out the fact that, you know, what you said about survival is so, so true. It’s hard to care about other people and to kind of sit with that if you’re just trying to survive. And I think. What, what happens for people is that they just can’t see beyond their, their survival.
So everything is a threat. Everyone is a grizzly bear, right? And so it’s hard for us to have conversations about caring And, and at the same time, I think it’s our responsibility to help ourselves shift out of that survival. And what I mean is that, that you can be.
Very abundant and still be in survival mode. You can’t say to me that you are not making hundreds of millions of dollars And that’s still not enough for you [00:14:00] You’re you’re coming from a place of lack Right. Like greed is just another perspective on lack because you’re trying to throw money at something that, that it’s clearly, it’s not about that.
So what is it? And so, so each of us are responsible for helping ourselves through that journey of. shifting away from survival into thriving.
it’s my responsibility to help myself through that journey through love and compassion, you know, with the grace that you were talking about. It can feel, it can feel challenging to do so. What helped you really tap into that during probably your most difficult moments?
Scott: Honestly, I think just bringing awareness to how I feel. When I do tap into it, it’s a completely different feeling in my being, right? It’s the difference between like a general sense of peacefulness and at home in myself versus like this [00:15:00] anxious, awkward, horrible feeling that, that is elicited through hatred or shaming others or dehumanizing others like they’re, I’m, as I said in the beginning, like it, obviously in this human experience, it’s not all about feeling good.
Like the world is full of insanity and, and also like. Outside of the insanity, just very real painful things happen. People die in our lives. we have breakups in relationships, things that create pain, right? But essentially, it’s just the more awareness I bring to How I am feeling in the moment in that moment of awareness is when you have an opportunity to redirect if what you’re thinking about is creating for you a lot of anxiety, a question I might ask myself is like, what else can I think about in this moment that might create a bit more peace?
How can I steer my thoughts in a different direction? Like, ask myself generative questions that lead me to a different [00:16:00] place. And if thinking about myself in the moment is uplifting. I’m cycling through self abuse and all it’s creating for me is misery. Then I encourage myself to think about anything else like quit thinking about myself if I can’t do so In a way in this moment that feels good It’s like i’m going to think about my nieces and nephews who bring me joy Or i’m going to think about the cute puppy next door or whatever it is It’s like, we’re not bound to thoughts that create for us misery and suffering, you know, we can make different choices.
And I think that all begins with awareness, like really bringing, really checking in with yourself. I’m really anxious right now. Okay. What are you thinking about that might be creating that anxiety and what can you do about those thoughts, if anything, in this moment,
Gissele: you’ve just given us how to help us shift out of survival, right?
Because we think that we get out of survival mode through external things. Like we have been taught that, you know, once I have the paying job or once I have the partner, once I have all of these [00:17:00] things, then I will be able to feel comfortable. And the more we control our environment, the more safe we will feel.
Scott: But I think what you’ve just given us is the beginning on how to shift. Some of that perspective through that awareness and then making a different choice. And that requires consistency and that requires showing up for yourself, which I think is really important. Absolutely. And you’re speaking to safety, like feeling safe.
And I, and I think that, you know, I, I came to this realization several years ago. It was heavy at first. It was this realization that, wow, no matter what choices I make, people are going to judge me. And that felt really heavy. It was this acknowledgement of how judgmental we all are and how easily judgmental we all are and just tear each other apart.
But then several moments later, it, I had the same realization from a completely different place. It was like, whoa. Okay. So no matter what I do, people are, some people are going to judge me. And it felt like this [00:18:00] invitation, it felt like liberation. And it’s like, I can choose to live in my box of conditioning.
And that might be safer because I’m not putting myself out there in a more authentic, honest way. Or I can choose to live in this liberated authenticity and either choice is going to lead to some people judging me. So why would I ever choose the box when I can get the benefits of living in my authenticity and liberation, you know?
Gissele: I love that you said that it’s, you know, like there is a level of freedom and understanding that no matter which way you go, you’re not going to please some, so you might as well please yourself. Right.
Scott: Exactly, because the benefits that come from that are, they just so greatly outweigh what could ever be created from the conditioned box of conformity.
Gissele: Yeah. I have a little bit of a leaning question. You know, when I, when I look at the world and who is behaving in a way that I, I feel from my perspective does not align with love and [00:19:00] compassion, it tends to be the white male. And, and, and so I always ask myself, like, What sort of world have we created for men in particular, like, and I mean co created, as children, like, what sort of messaging have men received that
they seem to be the driving forceto be this catalyst of being the anti love, the anti compassion and so I’m coming at a place from curiosity, because I’m curioushow have we in, in ways sort of co created this reality where you have this group of people that have this particular perspective that seems to contradict.
love and compassion
Scott: Well, I would say a couple of things. First and foremost, I would say that it’s tends to be white men in power, which is why we’re able to bear witness to people who [00:20:00] are living outside of love and compassion and the laws that they’re creating. And, but I, I, I don’t think it is limited to white. I think.
again, as I was saying earlier, what I’ve come to discover over these past years is I’ve, I’ve been watching some of the most progressive voices and some of the, the people speaking most beautifully about loving your neighbor and then saying just the most toxic things around, you know, their political rivals that for me is not an expression of love and compassion.
So, so I feel like we’re all wired. To be jerks, we’re all wired to, you know, and yet white men tend to hold the power. And so we’re seeing it on a, on a big stage, just how, how toxic those energies can be. And I can’t speak to Canada and I can only speak from my perspective to the U.
S. But, you know, this, this country was founded on genocide. [00:21:00] Followed by slavery. I mean, we, we are an extraordinarily racist country in our bones. And I think that even though there has been some evolution away from racism, that this is still very present in the air we breathe. And if you grow up in the United States as a white person, again, I feel I’m a very progressive white male.
And I see the racism in me and it isn’t even conscious. It is just like wired into me. I see the way that I will sometimes react if I’m walking down the street and it’s four black men that my, my antenna are going to go up in a different way than if it’s four white men. And that is not even conscious.
It’s just like bred into me from growing up in this country. Right. And so for me, when that’s happening for me, I, I do my best in the moment to just really acknowledge like, Hey, this is, this is the [00:22:00] internal racism from being born in a racist nation. This does, this is what’s happening in your head. It’s what’s happening in your fear.
And it doesn’t represent what you believe to be most true in your heart, at least to have that conversation with myself. So I’m not just letting myself be afraid of black men because we’re told that black men are dangerous and scary in this country it’s ridiculous, you know, so I guess I’m not really answering your question other than, than I don’t believe that we have in any way raised men in general across the board in this country.
To be healthy versions of masculinity and that’s just from the masculinity front. That’s not even addressing the racist front That we have to contend with in our country or the the sexist Front the misogynist front that all men are raised with to some degree, too it’s The problem for me, Giselle, is that [00:23:00] seeing again, at least in our country now, the men in control, from my perspective, they are men who are bound to this idea that women are less than, that other races are less than, so right now they’re in power again, which is going to make it that much harder.
We’re certainly not going to have our schools suddenly having curriculum that, if anything, those types of curriculum are being eliminated from our schools. So,
I think you answered it beautifully, because what you said was that We have all co created this. This is a long history of hate and racism that has been embedded within and this person’s a mirror of us, all of us all of our internalized racism and all of our fears and all of those things and, and where you are taking responsibility.
Gissele: And I think that takes a level of, you said, honesty. Authenticity and grace, that you’re acknowledging to yourself, the [00:24:00] things you need to heal within yourself so that you can embody that love and compassion. And it’s. Hard for us as human beings to do that. I think sometimes shame and guilt comes up. I shouldn’t feel that way.
I shouldn’t be but the truth of matter is the only way to change it is if we acknowledge it. And, and I mean, so I think it’s huge for you to have even made that example of saying, you know, like there’s, there’s certain levels of me that have that internalized racism. And the only way that can change is if I acknowledge it, become aware of it, give it grace, and then choose to change.
nobody: Absolutely. Yeah.
Gissele: You mentioned the concept of power, from my perspective, people that are trying to hold on to power and are trying to put power over, that’s not true power. Truly powerful people don’t need to disempower others. Their power comes from within. And so what I’m seeing, I’m not seeing truly powerful people, I’m seeing truly powerless people that are desperately trying to cling to power.
Scott: but [00:25:00] their choices make a difference. Like they’re writing laws that affect millions of people. So there is, there is power in what they’re able to create, even if the reasons why they’re seeking to create it aren’t from this strength, inner strength, it’s fear and insecurity. And, and yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. And that’s what I call
Gissele: systemic power that they have, right. So systems power, right. Like But to what extent have people allowed or accepted, this we didn’t just get here today.
There’s so many things that have slowly we’ve accepted that we have turned a blind eye on or not wanted to deal with. We are here because of a series of steps that we have allowed, likethe. Willingness to only love some people but not others. Any othering creates the conditions for racism, that’s hard for us, that’s really, really hard to not see those other people over there that are writing these laws that are [00:26:00] blatantly hurting people.
It’s hard to look at them and to say, I’m willing to love you. I’m willing to see your humanity, even though you don’t see mine or my people’s.
Scott: To me, that is the greatest power, though you are. That is power. When you look upon someone that is extraordinarily difficult to like and still love them, I feel most powerful when I’m in my heart and when I’m in love.
It’s like, I just feel like nothing can touch me in that space. Not really. And, and I don’t even need to like, I’m not committed to liking people. I’m committed to loving them. Like there, there are people I there’s, I don’t see any path to liking certain people, honestly. But I, I absolutely can love them because love doesn’t require me to like.
anything anyone’s doing. Love just requires me to remember this is another human being who has walked an [00:27:00] entire journey that had I been in their shoes and walked that journey I could not honestly say that I wouldn’t have landed in the exact same place they landed saying and doing the exact same things they’re saying and doing and in that understanding is where empathy Is built is where compassion is built.
And so that’s what helps me get there is I’m, I’m continuously reminding myself. I haven’t lived their life. I can’t relate to what they’re saying and doing, but maybe had I lived their life, I would understand why they’re saying and doing it. And so at least that opens my heart to them, even if I’m going to be actively like saying something that’s completely counter to what they’re saying, I’m not gonna like other them, as you say, and dehumanize, it doesn’t do anything.
Gissele: I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing many people. that have done extraordinary things like forgive And the willingness to just understand completely changes people, the willingness to just bear witness to their humanity has the power to [00:28:00] transform.
And We don’t understand that. it’s a true power from my perspective that we don’t, that we don’t really understand. I know in your work in particular, you emphasize the importance of self love and compassion for yourself. Why is that so important in terms of being able to love other people?
Scott: I believe our relationship with ourselves informs how we relate to everyone and everything else. So when I’m seeing people out there saying hateful things, one of the first things I think is this is a person who’s not in a loving relationship with themselves. Or they would never be acting in this way.
Because the more connected you are to self love, the more naturally you extend love to others. It’s the, it’s the only possibility. For me, it’s like it’s one plus one equals two. There is no other possibility. And that’s why I just can’t imagine. I can’t imagine a greater priority than strengthening, [00:29:00] deepening, fostering a more loving relationship with yourself.
We all know on the most basic level, if you are well nourished, and if you’ve gotten sleep, you’re going to be kinder to the people in your life. You’re going to show up differently. If you’re feeling like you’re taken care of and feeling good, how you show up is, and that’s why people get caught up in this idea that self love is selfish, and you shouldn’t be focused on yourself, you should be focused on others, when in fact, Yes, it’s selfish.
It’s the most beautiful selfishness there is. Love is a pure positive energy. It only serves all. So it, self love always transcends self. Always. Every single time. So yeah, I’m a big, I feel like it’s mostly what I talk about these days, is the importance of self love and the power of self love. Yeah.
Gissele: Yeah.
And I completely agree. It makes me think of that Wayne Dwyer analogy. He asks his audience, they’re like, you know, when you squeeze an orange, what [00:30:00] comes out and everyone says orange juice. And he’s like, why? Because that’s what’s on the inside. And so when you have love in your heart for yourself, you can’t.
help but love other people because that’s what’s on the inside, right? And especially when you’re pressured. And so I agree that that’s, the work I think that each of us can choose to do. But it’s so funny how we have you know incarnated in a world where that’s not reinforced.
You were talking about, like, people say it’s selfish, it’s narcissistic, the whole concept of narcissism. I don’t think people understand the whole difference between narcissism and self love. If you want to tackle it by all means. And, and I think. We’ve been programmed to focus on other, we haven’t been really that it’s, it’s service to other, look at other,
Scott: Yeah, women are conditioned intensely around that, always make sure everyone else is taken care of before you’re taken care of. That makes a good woman, that makes a good mother, that makes, [00:31:00] you know, it’s such nonsense and yet, and even though. Yes. Thank you. Though we’re aware, there, there are many women listening to this who understand that that’s nonsense, who are still affected by the conditioning because the conditioning has been from the time we’re tiny kids until now.
And it’s just like racism. It’s like, you know, better, you understand the, how irrational it is. And yet it’s in you. So you’re still reacting in alignment with this conditioning. But, and I wanted to say something to what you said earlier too, about. Loving loving ourselves. And one of the reasons it’s so important is because I think that that part of the reason we see so much rage and in so much division is that people are not willing to be honest with themselves about the harder aspects of their personality and to look upon those with love.
And so because people are shunning aspects of themselves. It becomes so much easier to point fingers at others and to make [00:32:00] all the issues and all the problems about another person’s actions But the more you love yourself The less inclined you are To hide aspects of yourself the less inclined you are to shame and shun aspects of yourself and naturally The less inclined you are to point fingers at others because you’re not needing to make excuses for your own bad behavior, your own unlikable traits, you’re okay with who you are.
So you’re not seeking out ugly things in others because you recognize you’ve offered yourself the grace of your own humanity. So you recognize that in others more naturally. That’s been my experience.
Gissele: Yeah, I would, I would agree with that. Absolutely. I found that the kinder I was to myself, the less self critical, the less critical I was of other people.
The more forgiving I was of my own flaws and follies, the less other people’s flaws and follies [00:33:00] bothered me.
Scott: Absolutely.
Gissele: And so, yeah, and, and it’s amazing how that works. You wouldn’t think that that the two would be related, but they absolutely are. And so, Looking in the mirror can be really hard.
When I was young, I faced some, some trauma and was actually raised by two traumatized people, parents that endured like child abuse, neglect, all kinds of stuff. And I remember when I was older and I was like really working hard at living my dreams and how do I make my dreams happen?
And I remember sitting in meditation, And what came out for me was something that I was shocked about because I would never had that negative self talk that was obvious, you know, like that negative self talk, you suck, you loser, you’re stupid, never that. But I remember sitting in meditation and I remember this feeling of.
I’m not worthy to live my dreams.
nobody: And
Gissele: that just hit me because I was like, [00:34:00] where is that coming from? Why would I feel that way about myself?When that came up for me, I was like, I didn’t know that was even in there. Where were you hiding? But yeah, and it was hard for me to look at my sense of unworthiness and be able to sit with it in a way that didn’t want to make me shut it. What do you find can really help people start to kind of sit with those aspects of themselves that Make it hard for them to look at
Scott: the first thing that’s coming to me right now is just have a willingness to love yourself No matter what literally I think willingness is such a big part of this whole story in this whole journey And it’s like I I feel like that is the starting point Are you willing to love yourself?
No matter what you discover when you get honest with yourself because that willing and can you stay [00:35:00] committed to that willingness? Right, because that willingness and that commitment to loving yourself, no matter what, is, will be the first step, I think, that will nudge you into looking at the places inside that aren’t easy to look at.
And then remember that everything you find about yourself is entirely human. You, if, if you are thinking it, and you are speaking it, and you are feeling it, It’s human to think feel you’re human. So it’s got to be human. And, and you are so not the only one, no matter how insane you think your thoughts are your problems or your whatever you are so not the only one, you know, and I’ll use for, I’ll use an example for myself, one of the hardest things.
It’s a to look at is how envious my mind can be and my mind is just envies everyone for everything. It will find reasons to envy everyone. And for me, that that is a really, it’s a really [00:36:00] tough energy. It feels kind of gross to feel envious. And yet. What I used to do is I used to pretend it wasn’t happening.
So I was talking to a friend years ago. He got a big promotion and a big raise at his job. And I was happy for him for like 10 seconds before my mind turned into envy. And so I’m talking with him and thinking, Oh, now he makes, he’s got this fancy job. He’s way more successful than I am. All of these things playing through my mind.
But as I was talking to my friend, what I was doing was like, telling myself, Oh, no, you’re not envious, like pretending it wasn’t happening, even though my whole body, because it’s so monstrous to feel envious against a, a good friend, right? That’s how it felt inside. And so what I do now in that, and that doesn’t do anything.
Cause if you’re feeling envious, you’re feeling envious. You can, you can try to put it away, but that it’s not going anywhere. And if anything, the aspects of ourselves that we try to bury or put in the dungeon. They’re going to be pounding on the door and informing our words and choices in ways that [00:37:00] we wouldn’t want them to be.
So suddenly you might be acting really passive aggressive with someone because really what you’re feeling is envy. And instead of just acknowledging it in yourself and dealing with it in yourself, you end up projecting it onto another person. So what I’ve done now with envy is if I’m feeling it, I’m just, what I’m saying, the internal dialogue is like.
your mind’s envious. It’s entirely natural to be envious. Every human mind on the planet deals with envy at sometimes. Okay. Envy too is welcome here. I might not like it, but I’m sure as hell going to love it because I know that there’s great benefit in creating friendship with everything that’s going on within you.
And anytime I try to shun or shame something, I’m going to war with a part of myself and it only creates war. It doesn’t serve us. So what does love invite? It invites me to to make room at the table for all aspects of who I am. And then what I find is if I can just be honest with my envy and also recognize [00:38:00] my envy is a product of my mind.
And my mind is consistently lying to me. So I don’t. My envy is real, but it is not true. What’s coming from my heart is most true to me. So even recognizing that distinction helps me just be with my envy in a more casual way and remind myself, it’s okay, you’re human, no problem.
nobody: What’s
Scott: next? What happens if we, for everyone listening, it’s like, what happens if you approach the harder aspects of who you are, the things your thoughts are, your mind is thinking about you that aren’t necessarily kind?
What happens if you’re like, Oh, it’s okay. It’s just human. This is just a mind doing what all human minds do. Can you bring. Like an energy of curiosity and nonchalance to it instead of this heaviness like I’m a piece of crap because my mind tells me I’m a piece of crap. No, you’re just a human being with a mind that’s telling you lies like all human [00:39:00] minds on the planet.
Gissele: Yeah. And I love how much grace you offer to yourself, Because I think what you’re saying also enables you to let go. And I find that when I let go and allow that’s really when my manifestations and things come through.
Like for any of us who are like into this whole manifestation thing, right? One of the hardest things I had to learn about the whole thing
You’re doing it to yourself, right? You, you create these things for yourself. It’s all coming from your mind, all of these things. And then when, when you create things that you don’t like, there’s a tendency to want to get angry at yourself.
Cause you’re like, Oh crap, I’m the source. Like nobody’s going to save me about me, but this sucks. Why did I create this? And so there’s a tendency to go inward when you know too much. Right? Like when you stop looking out there and saying, I’m the victim, it’s their fault. And you’re like, Oh crap, it’s my fault.
Scott: Right? Sure.
Gissele: It can be hard to be kind to yourself and giving yourself that [00:40:00] grace and understanding that you were just on your journey and other people’s journeys are different. And yeah, they might be doing things that you’re like, Oh, wouldn’t it be neat if I could just have these apple come out of nowhere or, you know, like things appear out of nowhere, it would not be great.
But giving yourself that kindness, I think really goesa long way in terms of helping you evolve. it can feel hard, right? Especially when you realize you’re like, Oh, everything is my fault. But it’s also a good thing, too, because anything is your fault. Everything then is in your power, right?
Scott: Yes, exactly.
That’s like liberation turned to it, which is wonderful. And why not, why not seek that perspective? Like, why live in the perspective, it’s all my fault, when you could live in the perspective, like, oh, it’s all within my power. Right? Like I, I’m, I’m consistently looking for ways to approach my life that support the possibility of deeper peace, more connection, more meaning.
So if I’m lost in a, in a [00:41:00] cycle of thought that I’m aware doesn’t support that at all, it’s incumbent upon me. To look at new ways to think about things if I’m able and we are able if we’re here and we’re breathing It’s always what we do from this moment on that’s going to matter the most so there’s always new opportunity to create transformation in our lives and I want to just say that self love invites Even when you’re judging yourself Can you love the part that’s judging, right?
That’s the invitation of self love. It’s like if you want to be in real self acceptance, then part of it, that acceptance is accepting the part of me that is unable to accept all the parts of me because that part of me too is welcome here. And that, when you can, when you can open that way energetically, then it’s alright, I’m good with all of it.
I’m good with all of it, even the part that’s not good with any of it,
Gissele: right? Yeah. What helped you attain this level of like. [00:42:00] inner acceptance. I know my audience are going to want to know. They’re like, what is that guy drinking?
Scott: Well, I mean, honestly, it’s just commitment because I’m, I’m also someone my, my mind is as self abusive as anyone else’s mind, right?
Like I’m not always living in this place of acceptance. I’m just, I’m someone who’s consistently looking at Well, how am I feeling? What am I thinking? That’s making me feel this way. What, how can I work with what’s going on here? So I’m not living in a, in an overall state of acceptance all the time. And I’m much more accepting of myself than I’ve ever been.
I’m much more loving than I’ve ever been. So I’ve seen progress. Because I see self love as a skill. So like any skill, the more you practice at it, the better you’re going to become. Self acceptance is the same. The more you practice at it, the better you’ll become. So for those of you listening who are like, I have no idea how to accept myself.
My guess is. A lot of people aren’t even entertaining the possibility. They’re not even [00:43:00] seeing it as something that is achievable. So start there, recognize that your heart, your heart center, the energy of love within you is in full acceptance of who you are. All the time is never out of alignment with acceptance.
So if you’re struggling to find that acceptance, it’s because you’re in your mind. It’s because we’re in our egos. So the invitation there is like, how do you get back into your heart? And, and how do you connect to your heart? How do you connect to anything in the world? If I want to connect to a friend, I’m going to reach out to my friend.
I’m going to send an invitation. So when I’m feeling like I need more heart energy, it’s like, I pray to my heart. Please love within me. I need you right now. I’m really lost in the cycle of my mind and could use your wisdom could use your energy. I’ll write letters to my heart. I’ll write letters from my heart.
Dear love. What would you have me know right now? And these are practices that that Tangibly engage us [00:44:00] with an energy outside of our minds with the voice of love and the more often you are engaging with the voice of love with the energy of love, the more natural it’s going to become to find it
This is what I’ve noticed. This is a profound thing I’ve noticed in my life. Is that when my mind is cycling through self abuse, I’m aware of it much faster than I’ve ever been in the gap between the self abuse and self love, which may have been here. It just gets shorter and shorter and shorter. So you’re not mired in this self abusive talk as long you get right back into, well, wait a minute.
That’s not true. I’m worthy. This is not, you know, that mind doing that thing minds do. I’m worthy. I’m enough. I’m beautiful just as I am. Right. You just with practice you that muscle builds so that that connection to your heart is just more available and resonant.
Gissele: I love that you said that. And, I also feel [00:45:00] like I asked you a question like psychically and then you answered it psychically, which is very weird.
And I’ll tell you why. So I was having a thought as you were talking, I was thinking about people that I know that felt betrayed by their heart, they felt like they fell in love with, with the wrong person, right? And so they felt betrayed by their heart and have a hard time. And then when I asked that question, I felt like something came back from you. That was like, that’s not the heart. That’s their mind. I was like, Oh, okay. So I’m not going to ask that question, but it was funny. Cause as you were talking, that’s kind of what came back
I love that
Scott: you’re bringing this up because a lot of people will say, you know, I love too much and it just creates heartbreak for me or struggle. And I’m like, that’s not love, honey. It’s the attachments to love. It’s the expectations around the love. And as soon as you’re attaching anything to love, It’s no longer love.
As soon as you’re putting expectations on love, it’s no longer love. It’s a creation of the mind. Love. As I said in the beginning, again, I speak from my experience. Love is a pure positive energy. It is only [00:46:00] of service. So you’re, you are not hurting because you love, you’re hurting because you have a whole bunch of stories that you are attaching to this idea of love.
And those stories are creating the suffering
Gissele: in my
Scott: experience.
Gissele: No, this is, yeah, that’s so great. I wanted to ask you a few more questions. You know, you mentioned enlightenment early in the in our conversation and you were talking about how you were, you kept seeking it and then it kept evading you. What helped you let go of the pursuit of enlightenment?
And like, where do you find your journey now?
Scott: What helped me let go is really coming to understand that enlightenment is not something you achieve, right? Like you it’s not like the 10, 000 hours idea that you become a professional or an expert in something You know, you can give 10, 000 hours to the pursuit of enlightenment and it doesn’t at all mean that you’re going to be enlightened That’s just that isn’t my experience of how [00:47:00] enlightenment works, you know, and I don’t even How many people are enlightened on this planet?
Eight? I don’t know. Like it’s not many. And there are a lot of people giving a lot of energy to their spiritual path and to their work. So, so that was the main thing. It was like, wait a minute. I have no control over this. Whether I become enlightened or not, what I have control over is how I’m choosing to show up.
What I have control over is how loving I am, how compassionate I am. That’s, that’s the work I can do. And what I noticed for myself, Gissele, was that I was constantly judging myself against a more enlightened version, which is to say, it’s I was responding in some way. And I’m like, if I were more enlightened, I wouldn’t be responding the way I’m responding to.
And why can’t I be that way? Instead of just bringing acceptance to who I actually am and not needing to be a different version, because really like for me, that is actually the essence of enlightenment. Ironically, it’s like full [00:48:00] acceptance of who you are and how you’re showing up in the moment
Gissele: in this moment.
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott: And so it’s like, I’m just, I’m engaged with the work I’m doing as I see myself as a messenger of love and a messenger of the power of love. And, and that’s really what I feel most committed to. And that’s enough, which doesn’t mean That I’m also not seeking and working toward deeper peace and more personal responsibility and all these things that I believe create a more fulfilling life.
Absolutely, but it’s without attachment to the goal of where that could all lead. It’s just created a lot of freedom. Like I don’t need, I don’t expect to be enlightened in this lifetime. I don’t need to be enlightened and I’m going to continuously seek to become more loving and peaceful.
Gissele: Those
Scott: things are true.
Gissele: But what a beautiful way to summarize that so a few more questions I always ask all my guests, what is [00:49:00] their definition of unconditional love?
Scott: Well, one, it’s redundant because I don’t think, I don’t believe love has conditions. So the moment you put a condition on love, it’s not love. So I don’t even usually say unconditional love, but it’s, it’s, it’s really just, I see love as energy.
That’s my experience of love. So for me, it’s just about aligning with that energy and acting from that place. So for me, when I’m in my heart, the message is, and what I love so much about connecting to my heart is there’s no confusion. The message is always just love. And so, and then I’m like, even that person in my heart’s like, yeah, even that person, like, that just love.
So that is for me, what love is. It’s aligning with that energy and then moving forward with my words and actions in that place. And every time I do, I feel better in my [00:50:00] life.
Gissele: The reason why I was reacting to that is because I remember I was in my bathroom getting ready for work and I was working at a place that I loved.
And I felt I had been doing all of these initiatives for the staff. And I didn’t feel like that was acknowledged I felt like people were just complaining And I was like, Oh, I can’t believe it. I was doing all these things and they’re complaining and I heard a voice say to me, love them anyways.
Love them anyways. And I was like, where did that come from? And I was like, Oh yeah, crap. Yes, that’s right. Love them anyways. Even though they, you feel them might be giving you a hard time love them anyways. Yeah. And I, yes. And it didn’t come from like me, me. maybe it came through me or like from my heart, but it was not an answer I was expecting.
I was expecting my higher self to be like, yeah, you’re right. They suck. I can’t believe they’re not appreciating all that. It was like, love them anyways.
Scott: Yeah, I love that.
Gissele: So last question, where can [00:51:00] people work with you? Where can they find you? Where can they find your books and everything else that you want to offer?
Please share.
Scott: Oh, thank you so much. I, I’ve got a couple books, Enough As You Are, and then Big Love. The, the paperback is finally coming out in late February after seven years of being out there. So perfect time. Yeah, those two books. And then, you know, my website’s just http://www.scottstabile.Com. I would love for people to find me through my newsletter though, which is scottstabile.substack. com. And then I’m also being a lot more engaged with Insight Timer. So I’m going to be sharing more meditations and more live talks on that app because that the energy of that app feels really resonant with me. I’ve taken myself out of meta for potentially indefinitely and we’ll see, but I just want to be connecting with platforms that feel really good and Insight Timer does right now and Substack does right now.
So
Gissele: in particular for listeners, Insight Timer offers free meditations, free, lots of things that you can, you [00:52:00] can go. So please go check out Scott’s work, check out his books. And thank you, Scott, for coming in and chatting with us. This was an amazing conversation and I feel like just what I needed for this week left on my soul and please join us for another episode of the loving compassion podcast, which is out.
Thank you so much.
Scott: Thank you.