Ep.61- Creating True Intimacy with Lyuba Venable

Transcript

Gissele: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Love and Compassion podcast with Giselle. We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives and our world.

Don’t forget to like and subscribe for more amazing content. Today we’re going to be talking about the power of intimacy and connection. And our guest today is Lyuba Benablo. And she’s a highly trained sex and relationship coach, passionate about helping men discover what women truly crave for within intimate connections.

Having led countless women only pleasure retreats, Luba has gained a vast understanding of women’s needs to feel deeply fulfilled. And with this, she identified a calling that speaks to her, guiding men towards becoming the most impactful and authentic lovers. They can be Lyuba’s authentic lovers for men program empowers men to explore the depths of intimacy, the specific needs that women struggle [00:01:00] to openly express known for her approachable style and real world insights.

Lyuba practices, everything she teaches.

Embodying the lessons she shares with her clients. Please join me in welcoming Lyuba.

Lyuba: Hi Giselle. How are you? I am, I’m so good. I just, I just had a session with a young couple. Like in their 20s and I, I just turned 41 and you know, I feel like I’m this like an older, wiser woman who is just like teaching them about how to be closer, how to have fun in their relationship.

So my heart is full. I, I love doing what I do.

Gissele: Oh, that is so amazing. And you know, like kudos to them for actually looking to explore that so that they can get that greater intimacy. So that’s amazing.

Where did you get started in

this work? Can you [00:02:00] share?

Lyuba: Yeah, so I, I started, I started when COVID started, so that’s, that’s my starting point.

Okay, okay, nice. And, and, and that was the time when I used to work in software industry. When I moved to United States, my first company was Google. So, I was like out there. Wow. Go on. Yeah. And then I was taking these like a weekend training where we were like really feeling inside looking inside. And there was this like, like a calling that I want to work with people like on intimacy, sexuality.

I want to help people to connect. And that was just like, okay, I have to do it. And I started as COVID started, you know, couldn’t wait longer.

Gissele: Oh, that’s so funny. That’s incredible. Having been a coach for a little while, what do you, what do you think the biggest mistake is that women and men make around intimacy?

Lyuba: [00:03:00] Oh, yeah. The biggest, you know, it’s like no one teaches us. That’s, that’s the first thing to start that in our families, for most of us, it’s not modeled. The intimacy is not modeled. Right. And then schools don’t teach us. And so how are we supposed to know? So we enter relationships that we don’t know how to create intimacy.

I feel like I experienced my first intimacy, like being close with another person when I was 30. So it’s just like, I didn’t have it as a little kid, you know? And I just, I remember I, I cried the whole weekend because it felt so good. And I was so sad that. I haven’t had it in my life, right, that so that I haven’t experienced it earlier in my life that I was missing it and craving it.

Gissele: Yeah, it’s so funny. Absolutely. I mean, I was thinking about my own family in my own family. Like, sex was a no talk. Like, it was [00:04:00] like, you don’t mention that you don’t talk about pleasure. You certainly don’t talk about intimacy. And I would say that I was taught it was supposed to be fairly mechanical.

Like, it was just like, you know, something you did and and it was like, there was definitely no talk about women’s pleasure. There was definitely no talk about in particular. It was. Maybe it was, like, considered acceptable for it to be a men’s pleasure, but I don’t know so much about women, so that’s that’s, that’s a very good point that you’ve made.

What did you learn in working with both women, women that really surprised you about how sex and intimacy is happens between the sexes?

Lyuba: It’s just, like, there are so many, there are so many surprises, because the first one that no one teaches us about female sexuality. I feel like sexologists, historically, they used to be men, like, like women came in later.

Gissele: Right? [00:05:00] It’s so true. Here’s what I think that clitoris does. Yeah, that’s so fair. Yeah, yeah.

Lyuba: Yeah, yeah. And so, and there is this like whole expected women, we are expected to, Show up sexually, same as men, but we are so different. Like simply most women don’t have orgasm from penetration. Yeah. Right. And I remember, I’m one of them, I don’t like, I need vibrator on my clitoris to like, to have orgasm and, and so I used to be, I felt something wrong with me because I thought like when you have penetrative sex.

That’s when men and women have orgasm, but then like looking into anatomy, our clitoris is outside. We have some tissue inside, but most of it outside. So it’s mostly like, Oh, those women who have orgasm just from penetration, how, how does it happen? It’s like almost like, right. So just normalizing like a lot of sins and other sin for women, we are [00:06:00] slower.

So it just, I love this analogy, woman is like water and man is fire. So man, like he feels attraction, he turned on, he’s hard, he’s ready to go. And for women, it takes us like, I say 40 minutes, at least 40 minutes foreplay. It takes us time to warm up, but then we last longer. How about that?

Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. Which is great.

Yeah. And I would say men and women show up differently, right? Like, like what women want or the kind of level intimacy women want, they look different in terms of men, like how they show up in terms of when they want to initiate intimacy. What have you found?

Lyuba: Yeah. Yeah. Like, like the, usually. It’s, it’s so fascinating because men like a typical man who is seeking coaching, they want to be the best lover.

So they really want to please their partner. And so, and they seem [00:07:00] that like they need to work, they need to last longer, or like like if erection is an issue, like to work on erection, so they focus on their penis. But then it’s fascinating because that’s not what women want. So, we want that emotional presence.

That emotional availability to be able to share and that he holds you. And that he like, he’s just like present. Right. And so this is what, like, they come to work on their penis and we end up working on, like, so many other things which, like, penis is icing on the cake. Yeah. This is so funny. It is, it is, yeah.

And then, like, women, like, usually women comes for coaching because they have low libido, so they don’t feel like having sex. And then we are looking Are they having sex that they really will be like satisfying because a lot of times they don’t a lot of [00:08:00] times like you said it’s mechanical it’s just like genitals rubbing have orgasm and then it’s just like no wonder they don’t feel like having sex and then like low libido what if woman had a satisfying sex then how about that that you recreate that experience for her and then she’s like all hungry she wants more

Gissele: Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. It reminded me of like what you were talking about before about the whole, like the women want to be romanced versus the men just, you know, they’re speaking about like the whole penetration piece of it. I was reminded of so there’s this comedian Taylor Tomlinson that was talking about how her friends had introduced her to female porn, like on radio and what it was, it was basically this guy like doing things like fixing a tire and talking to her or like emotionally supporting her. So it’s 20 minutes of the guy, like, helping her calm down and reassuring her that everything was gonna be okay. And I’m like, that’s hilarious. It’s so funny [00:09:00] how we show up in these intimate moments. And it’s not just about sex. It’s about intimacy. It’s about coming together. It’s about like the unification or unity, right?

And I think men crave that too, right? Like they crave that connection,

Lyuba: but

Gissele: how it shows up is different.

Lyuba: Yeah. It’s like all, all humans, they crave intimacy and by intimacy, I don’t mean sex. We crave that closeness. We want to be close. And then like sex can be added to it and it’s beautiful for some people, but there are people that they don’t want intimacy and sex together.

So we’re all different. That’s what like, that’s what the important thing I learned. One size doesn’t fit all that. Like we’re all very different. So like, let’s say for me, intimacy and sex, they come so good together. Right. And it’s just like mainly women are like that. And there are people, men and women.

who separate them. So they, they seek some like, like, you know, like having [00:10:00] sex with a stranger or like, like some newness and intimacy is kind of gets in the way. But that’s like, but that’s totally fine. We don’t choose this, like this desire they formed in us as we are little kids. And then like later we want to experience it sexually.

So it’s just, yeah, it’s beautiful, you know, psychology of sex. Psychology of lovemaking. That’s what I’m so fascinated about. Because like, again, like no one teaches us, right? But just understanding what psychologically turns person on. It’s not like position, how many people sing, or like some sensation necessarily.

It’s like the psychology, what they want to feel. Yeah, absolutely. And there is this, like, funny example I wanted to share, like, how you talked, like, different, right? Like, men and women different. That, like, men and women, they have, they have great sex. They both loved it. It was an amazing experience. And so, [00:11:00] woman is telling, like, how we have this, like, the moments that are highlights for us.

Right. And so woman is talking about her highlights and she, she would say something like, Oh my God, he looked in my eyes and like, I felt electricity in my body, then we were making out for hours or like he held my hand and it just like, I felt his desire. Right. And so the same experience, like same sex, same man is talking, man would say something like, Oh my God, she got on top of me and she was riding me and her hair was like all flying.

And then she was so hungry And she just went down on me. And it just like, they both had No one is lying. They both had all of those moments and they all enjoyed, but the highlights for women and for men a lot of times different.

Gissele: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Lyuba: It

Gissele: is, it is very fascinating and there’s an aspect of me that wonders whether some of that is a bit of [00:12:00] socialization for men.

And the reason why I mentioned that is because, you know one of the things I’ve been really pondering is the issue of. That, you know, men, it seems in our society, and I could totally be wrong, but it seems like in our society, we are taught that the primary acceptable emotion for men is anger and the primary way to achieve closeness is sex.

So, it doesn’t seem to me that boys are really nurtured, like, they’re not really reinforced to seek nurturance without that climax and sex, that intimacy without it leading to something else. And now this is maybe the way I was socialized. But it is really, it seems to me that just in terms of like, my family units and the, the things that I see from people that I’ve surrounded it, there’s that disconnect in between, like, that, that usually that some sort of level of touch leads to, or has to lead to.

And I think there’s sometimes that expectation of [00:13:00] women, and this is why some women are like, well, I don’t feel like it because you assume that touch is automatically going to lead to to. to having something when sometimes touch is just a hug or comfort. And so I think I see, I have seen at least in, in my environment, this disconnect of the socialization of men for, you know, that, that that’s sex is for intimacy and that’s the way we, we get closeness.

And And not necessarily like just the intimacy itself, if you know what I mean.

Lyuba: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that’s what like the intimacy is like the aspect that a lot of times people just like I said earlier, like never learned how to do it and like never experience. And so like when I have clients in my office and so my coaching is experiential that if it’s a couple, like they do.

Experience with each other, but [00:14:00] if individual is coming, they do the experience it like I do it with them. So we would just like look in the eyes and connect and then just like gently touching like I would like play music and touch, you know, like phrase just I’m not turning them on just like this owner in touch that like, wow, like this human being, like, I’m just, I’m so honored to touch you.

And it’s like including hair and just touching like for the sake of touching right. And a lot of times people start crying that there is that like men and women that like wow like I never been touched like that because somehow touch connected to sex right that like okay we are about to have sex like let’s touch to warm up so it’s like a foreplay to which is great it works yeah yeah not only for that right yeah just like touching for the sake of touching and something I learned and we have been doing it with my husband and I highly recommend for people to [00:15:00] do it that to have 15 minutes each.

So I would just lay down and we have a timer that like, that, you know, that, that we know, and just like, he will touch me from head to toe. And we discuss boundaries. That like, even we married for eight years, sometimes I don’t feel like my, I don’t want my genitals to be touched, or my breasts to be touched.

I want to be like, pure non sexual. And so just like, receiving that touch, and then I flip, and he touches like, my back, like all, from head to toe. And there is something, it’s like I had a meal, it’s just like this energetical meal and we felt so closer because this is, this is my honey, this is my close person who just like nourished me.

not warming me up for sex. Right. So we just, after that we continue with our day.

Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. I love what you said that you said, because it also builds [00:16:00] different levels of intimacy, right? Like it’s not just about like, there’s, there’s also a timing aspect of it. People think they just got to get to the punchline and move on right.

Like that, that sometimes like in this kind of world that we’re so hurried, we just kind of want to get there. Whereas what you’re talking about is, is like time. Separated to spend together, which I think is really important. The other thing I think that you mentioned, which is critical, is just because you’re married doesn’t mean you don’t have boundaries.

Just because

Lyuba: or that

Gissele: you don’t have like you can’t voice your desires. And I think that has been an issue in terms of like domestic violence and issues of like, you know, assault within marriages because people are like, well, you’re married. No, you have your boundaries. You have you still it’s your body still right.

And so to be able to communicate with your partner in a very fair way. I think it’s, it’s most, most appropriate. Yeah,

Lyuba: yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally, yeah.

Gissele: And going back to the issue of time too doesn’t it seem like [00:17:00] in general we make time one of the things that my husband and I talk about is like he loves to spend time together, but he doesn’t like it to be you know what I’m saying?

Like, he doesn’t, he doesn’t want us to be like, every Friday we’re going out on date night. Right. Whereas I’m like, I’m sometimes like, I have so many things that I’m juggling. Like, for me, it’s like, oh, it would be great if we could separate the times because and sometimes like a week will go by and then we don’t get to spend that time together.

And I’m like, well, we didn’t spend that time together. I mean, we’re both lucky that we both work from home. So we’re able to carve those times when we’ll have breakfast together or we’ll have lunch together. Right. And so I’m able to do that. But the times when I feel like. I’m craving a little bit more closeness.

For me, having that time is like, oh, a special thing I’m looking forward to. Whereas he prefers the most spontaneous things. Do you find that time is a factor in terms of when people are considering the amount of closeness or intimacy that they [00:18:00] spend as a couple?

Lyuba: Yeah, yeah, this is this time is one factor, like there are several factors, and I want to mention others later, but time, you’re right, this time, because, like, you have, we are all busy, and then if you have children, or anyone you take care of, right, it just, it all adds up, and then we become like this, like like partners, roommates in a way, but there is no, there is no time for sex or any quality time, right?

My mother in law used

Gissele: to call it ships passing in the night.

Lyuba: She

Gissele: Exactly. Yeah. It’s just

Lyuba: like you’re passing by, you don’t meet each other. Right. And that’s what you want to meet each other. And the first, my first I met this, like, like my mentor, when I met her, she, she’d been 20 years with her husband.

And when I visited them there, you know, like they’re all over each other. They’re like touching each other. Like they just met and like, wait a second. Like I’m like three years in my [00:19:00] marriage and we don’t do that. I was just like, so curious. And she said this like this just like it got in me like set in stone it just was so like the struck me She said we schedule our dates We have we have scheduled dates and I swear to God when I started doing that It’s a game changer and we will talk in a moment about like how your husband doesn’t like to do that Yeah, yeah, yeah But something we do we have this like six hour date every week And like six hours, it’s a lot of time, right?

It is, yeah. And I feel like that’s, that’s our saver. Because, like, life gets so busy. And at first, we tried to schedule over it. It’s like, oh, it’s six hours. Like, let’s spend the first hour talking about finances. Let’s do this, like, no, no, no, no, no. So that’s a, it’s a golden rule. Nothing can be, nothing overrided.

Like, there is nothing more important. It’s our sixth. hours. [00:20:00] And then when we have this six hours, like I feel this, the spaciousness, right? So I feel like my partner is fully present. We start with the check in and we have this vulnerable check in where sometimes like I would talk about like what is hard for me and just like maybe cry about something and he’s holding me and he does the same.

And I feel like the moment we do that, I’m just like, for me, and again, we’re all different, but for me, that vulnerability, just like, It’s kind of like it turns me on in a way, you know, like, I just, I feel so open. And then we might go somewhere for a walk, we might go have like lunch together or whatever.

Or sometimes we just spend in bed like all the rest of five hours. And so that’s like, that’s our time. And we have it every week. And like, nothing gets in the way. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, no, go ahead. But then so I’m thinking that. For your partner that. There can be something that [00:21:00] like spontaneity is important like being spontaneous, right?

Yeah, and it could be even like core desire like like that can be Something that is just like hot for him something that like if it’s planned it kills the moment, right? Hmm So I am thinking like how to get creative here. I wonder what if, like, maybe if you scheduled it for yourself and then, like, came.

It’s a surprise to him

Gissele: when he’s coming down the stairs.

Actually, that sounds like pretty good. That

Lyuba: sounds that makes. Yeah, that’s that sounds pretty good. Just like to get creative, to play with it, because that’s, that’s what I, that’s what I talk with my clients a lot that when we meet, we find this like, Oh, this is our favorite position. This is the way like we have orgasm.

And then when we do it for years, it becomes kind of like stale and used to it. We want to bring that creativity to understand the core desire of [00:22:00] your person and. Then just like keep exploring like, oh, what if I try this? What if I try that? And just dance with

Gissele: it,

Lyuba: right?

Gissele: Yeah, I love that. I was just thinking, as you were talking before, I was thinking about how I’m, I’m guilty of that.

So, when we are spending time together, I will immediately go into mom mode in the beginning, like, so you were talking about 6 hours. You’re right. Like, the 1st, 5 minutes, I’ll be like, okay, what do we have to do and for the kids that are that. And he’s like, and I’m like, Oh, so I just noticed as you were talking, I’m like, Oh, that’s me.

I do that. I immediately go into, into like, okay, what do we have to, we have this time together. What do we have to sort out? And then I will say that I do check myself. but I feel the need at times just to talk about it first and just to kind of almost get it out of the way.

So I’m like, so I think it’s a pretty cool rule to say, this is not the time for that. Like, this is not the time, it’s, [00:23:00] it’s, this is our protected time, and that’s the time to do that. So I do like that a lot. Yeah.

Lyuba: And there is difference. Like, one thing is like, you’re in a planning mode and you’re planning, like that you want to put out, but then like maybe something you’re struggling, right?

Like maybe something like you’re not connecting with your kid or like something your kid said and it really hurt you, or you feel like you’re not present enough, right? So those things like they are, there is something powerful about like sharing them or sharing your struggles and like getting vulnerable, right?

Like really opening up. We just, a deeper place opens up when we connect with our partners.

Gissele: And we definitely do that. Like I talk to my husband a lot about like things that trigger me, things like old history and stuff. And like we talk about like emptying our buckets that way. I will say that, like, I don’t know if vulnerability is as.

Reinforced in men, [00:24:00] like, I think my husband is, I feel now able to talk to me in a very vulnerable way, but it wasn’t always the case. I think that men have been not all men, but some men have been conditioned to be like the, this, the stoic. Like, I have to be not like, not cry, be the one that holds my family together, like that kind of so vulnerability can sometimes feel a little bit like weakness or scary.

What do you do that you work with around how to open themselves up to be more vulnerable so that they don’t feel like it’s a weakness, but rather step towards coming closer.

Lyuba: Yeah, and that’s, you are spot on, Giselle. You’re so spot on because men are not taught that, that like, you’re totally right, that it is, they, they see it as a weakness and, and a lot of times they just don’t know how to do it.

I’m like, okay, could you share something vulnerable? And they talk about like [00:25:00] yesterday at lunch, something that doesn’t matter. Right. And so, but he gave me a

Gissele: sandwich

Lyuba: instead of giving me a turkey sandwich. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Right. And, and so that’s just, it’s, it’s hard and it is hard to get vulnerable.

Right. And so what, what works really well that when I, when interact with men. I model it by example, so I will get vulnerable and I share, I notice whenever I get vulnerable, the person, the humans, they open up towards it. For some humans, it takes longer, right? there might be resistance.

For some, it’s like works right away, but there is something about like one person, it’s like, One opens, and then the rest, it just like, cracks the rest, and then everyone opens. Right? So just like, but real vulnerability, right? Like, I just, I would like share something like real, and people feel that energy of like, how I put [00:26:00] myself like, out there, right?

And so they want to respond with the same. They just like, they jump in. And the important thing I say when, when people practice, like when they’re not used to it, you want to share it with someone who can hold you. You’re not just like sharing with a person, like I remember I shared something vulnerable with my dad and he started scolding me.

He’s like, you should not have done it.

Gissele: Yeah.

Lyuba: And that’s not, you don’t want to get involved in a

Gissele: purpose. No. The last thing you want to do is when you put yourself out there, somebody tell you like you’re doing that wrong, but there is a real generational thing, right? Like when I think about, even think about my father in law when he was alive, like I remember my husband mentioning that he, Like, he didn’t really hug them until he was 13, like it was something that his wife, his mother, like my mother in law would encourage him to do.

As he got older in life, he totally craved those hugs. He was a hugger. He was a nonstop hugger because he, [00:27:00] like his parents, like he died and he had all this trauma and you kind of build all these walls and then, but it’s, love has a way of melting that. It has a way of, of when you’re reaching out for that touch and when you’re able to move that forward, really.

Opening up that space for people, but there’s definitely a generational thing when it comes to intimacy. Yeah,

Lyuba: there is. Yeah. That’s like, like, like I wasn’t touched by my parents much, like, like we didn’t have hugs. And so that’s like, I, I crave it. I remember craving it. And then when I learned all of these, right, like the importance of touch and that, like, like as of today, Like, I do touch, like, I touch with my clients, like, with their permission, it’s like, they’re a choice, right?

Yeah, of course. But we do this, like, touch. And then with my friends, like, I have friends, we are not sexual, and we just like, we hold hands as we are talking, you know, and then we will do this exercise, like, touching each other, and it’s like, non [00:28:00] sexual touch, it’s so nourishing. And I’m thinking, what if What if the world was more open to touch?

Gissele: Yeah, because I think if I knew you, I think we’d be great friends. Cause I’m such a touchy person. I think that’s my love language. It’s so true. I think that we would totally be like people that would be like hugging each other and touching if I was your friend. Cause I’m like, I’m so that way in. It’s so funny how, like, my kids and my husband have, like, a different love language.

Mine came up first, in terms of, like, mine’s a physical touch. Like, I gotta touch them, like, right? And so, since they’re teenagers now, they’re kind of like, Eh, can you give me some space? They used to have a dog, and if My kids used to call it my emotional support dog, because if nobody wanted to give me a hug, I would hug the dog and make him uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, my beloved dog has since passed. But, but yeah, it was like, I crave that physical touch. And I would tell my kids, I’m like, you know, it says [00:29:00] research says that, you know, you have to hug for like 10 seconds For this hug to impact you, whereas, like, my husband’s love language is more like acts of service, like, he will do things so many different things for his family, like, he’s always like, he’s kind of a rock, right?

And my kids are different, like, when we all did it, we all kind of ended up with something different and it’s so funny how people communicate their needs. Definitely physical touch is one of mine for sure. Aw

Lyuba: I I love it. . And, but, but as well, like something that we miss a lot of times with love languages that there is given and receiving love language, right?

Yes. So maybe for you both given and receiving this touch and it can be like so, so when your partners, right, like with your kids, with your. Partner, like again, like you getting vulnerable, I imagine, and like sharing, like this is my love language. I crave it. I really want, like, I would love a hug that would made my day if you just hug me in the moment and leave it at that, right?

Like it doesn’t, it doesn’t mean they have to do it. They’re a choice. [00:30:00] Everyone is a choice, right? Agreed. But just agreed. But just putting it out there, right? Mm-hmm. That like asking for what you want. And being ready to hear no. Yeah. I hear no a lot.

Gissele: Sometimes they go like, Okay. But yeah, I’m open. That’s why they’re like, Mom, you should get another dog.

I’m like,

Lyuba: yeah. And with pets, that’s what like a lot of times when people don’t have a sexual partner, they don’t get touch. Right? In our society, where else do you get touch? You can go for massage, but like, Not everyone likes massages, it gets pricey, right? So, like, where do you get touch? People get pets.

And so this is exactly what you’re saying, that, like, because pet, like, we still, like, we have this warm being that we can touch, but then we don’t get, they’re not touching us the way how human can touch us, right? So, like, that part is still missing.

Gissele: Yeah, I know. That’s [00:31:00] totally true. Yeah.

Lyuba: Yeah. Another thing about the hugs with I remember coming across this research that.

When we don’t have any hugs, it’s easy to get depressed and feel moody. And that’s just like, it’s proven that even like grownups, like babies can develop mental illness if they’re not touched enough. But grownups, we, we like, we learn to survive, like we are okay, but we kind of like they’re getting depressed and then having like three or four hugs.

That’s what, we are okay. That’s like fine. So if we get three, four hugs per day, we are okay. And then having something like ten hugs makes us thrive.

Gissele: Yeah, I was like, what’s that statistic? And I’m like, gotta do ten hugs! They’re like, yeah, I’m not buying a mom. I love that.

I did tell them that. I was like, you know, but said 10 hugs is for you to describe. It’s for you to be from, [00:32:00] I’m doing you a favor. Yeah. Like talking about physical touch, like during COVID, it really showed us how much we craved contact, how much. Being in connection with people right and I feel like we’re going through this whole thing about people feel so disconnected.

They feel so. distant, right? They’re so pitted against one another for all these things. And I just think like we really need more connection, more touch, more intimacy and understanding how to gain that intimacy and how to vocalize that intimacy. Cause I think it can be difficult for some women to express what they need.

Right. And why do you think that is?

Lyuba: Yeah, that what you’re talking how in the world we feel distance, something that breaks my heart that I see distance. between partners, so that people who are the closest, right, you’re supposed to have this person to be your closest, [00:33:00] but they end up over time instead of growing closer and deepening, right, kind of like more and more.

Separating and like living together, having kids, having house and feeling that distance that, right? And so I experienced it a lot that like a couple would come that like, oh, like we don’t have sex. sexless marriage. We want to have sex. But then, like, I have so many tools for teaching sex, but, like, I see this wall between them.

Like, there is no tool we’ll apply until we remove the wall. Because, like, you can’t have sex with a wall between you.

Gissele: No, I think that’s one of the things that my husband and I talked about

And I think that I remember him saying, like, we were early on and he said, you know, like, the relationship has to be important. We have to prioritize seeing ourselves beyond just parents. That really stuck with me. Because I hadn’t heard that before. I, I kind of saw my parents as [00:34:00] people that their priority in terms of, like, oh, you have to do all of these tasks and all these things.

Relationship was just there. So I didn’t see because I didn’t see a lot of intimacy and connection and all of that. Yeah, it was, it was challenging for me in the beginning to really be vulnerable and really be. To allow myself to have that vulnerability within the relationship.

Lyuba: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think, like, I agree with that, that like to nourish relationship, right?

Like to that, that like, I love this analogy that when you start playing tennis, Like, you you buy all of these, like, equipment, you go regularly practice, right? And then when you get into relationship, you kind of, like, put it on the side. Like Yeah.

Gissele: You’re like, come on, I have my rackets over there, gaining, like, dust.

Or they use it as something else, like, you know, like you, like, you put your clothes on the piano or something. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Lyuba: yeah, yeah. Like, like, keep [00:35:00] exercising it, right? So that’s one thing. And I think there is something, like, very important and that like, again, like no one tells us about this, that I love this, like the concept, Emily Nagoski explains it.

So there is a book, Come As You Are. This book is about female sexuality. And as well, she mentioned there is, when we have, like, let’s say we are two people, we get together, at first it’s flowing, right? Like, like each other, it’s so great, and then we step on each other toes, like, inevitably, we will hurt each other, the closer we are, like, the, the more hurtful whatever our partner is doing, right?

Like, so. The more

Gissele: vulnerable we feel, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, so we

Lyuba: hurt each other and we swallow it. And so Emily describes that it’s like a hedgehog. Let’s say my partner did something and I felt an ouch. And so when I felt that ouch and I didn’t clear it, I put a hedgehog. And so another hedgehog. And there are like small hedgehogs.

Like maybe [00:36:00] he didn’t do dishes or like something and there are big hedgehogs like maybe I felt betrayed or he didn’t show up for me or right like so and we put that pile of hedgehogs between us and then it’s like either it’s a wall or it’s a hedgehogs right like we have that so that’s how we create the distance.

And so, how to not create them, to clear them, that like to commit to, it’s almost like brushing teeth. Every time I feel a little ouch, I would be like, hey honey, I have a hedgehog. Like, are you open to hear? And sometimes he was maybe like, oh no, let’s do later. I’m like focused on something. But when he is open, right, and then I will share it in, I feel respected, not that like, how dare are you, you just like, right, like not blaming, but you know, like something happened and I felt this, like you left dishes and I felt like I saw it and I felt like, oh, I’m not important like that.

I’m not important for you. You know [00:37:00] how I love clean kitchen. Right. And so, and just like, I’m not saying it to change my partner. It’s important that I don’t try to manipulate, like, I’m just saying it to remove that hedgehog that I don’t hold it against my partner. And this has been such a amazing tool that we just, we make sure we don’t have any hedgehogs.

And when there is a hedgehog, we just sit down. If it’s a big one, like the small one, we kind of like do it quickly, but then we sit down. And as I share it for someone who’s receiving, it’s important for them to like have empathy. Like, not go into this, like, because a lot of times, especially men, they’re like, Okay, we’ll fix it.

I will, I will do the dishes. Starting tomorrow, I will do all the dishes. And it’s not about that. It’s about like, Oh, honey, I get it. Yeah, you really, you really like you looked almost like repeating your own words, right? Like you, you went into the, you came into the kitchen and you’re like, what the [00:38:00] heck?

Like, like, like, You felt like something dropped, right? To just like really have an empathy and after empathy sharing, like, Oh, I was so sleepy. And like, I didn’t feel like doing dishes. And so I think that’s just like the most important tool for relationships.

Gissele: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can think about early in my relationship.

I was my husband for a long time. My daughter is now 17. And so, and we were, I think, together two, three years even before that. And I remember, like, early in the relationship, I didn’t realize how I didn’t love myself and value myself enough. I didn’t think I was worthy. And so I kind of molded myself and had all these expectations of what my partner should be.

Lyuba: And I think I realized

Gissele: that once I stopped needing him to be the stuff that I needed for myself, that I could give myself, and I really did see a shift in our relationship in terms of like, I no longer expected him to to meet all [00:39:00] those needs, all these needs that I had that he didn’t even know I had.

That because I never vocalized, I just expected him to psychically know, right? Like if you love me and you knew me, you should know what I don’t make those assumptions of like, Oh, he must know what I need. And I will say, you know, Try to have conversations. I’m not always successful. Sometimes I’m just triggered and I’m like, okay, you need to give me a moment.

But when I, when I’m, when I’m there, we can talk about like, look, I know it wasn’t your intention to do that, but this is the impact of whatever that happened. I know you would never mean to hurt me because that’s just because I know you love me. This is the impact or this is why I was triggered.

Sometimes I can’t stop myself from being triggered. I’ll just react. Like I’ll just have a trigger and then I’ll be like, okay. No, but that’s how trigger works. Yes. It’s not exactly, and then I’m like, it’s not you, it’s everyone. Yeah. It’s like, but, but then I know when I’m triggered, it’s something about me, like if, if, if there’s something that needs to [00:40:00] heal within me.

And so I have seen that shift. But I will say that I. Like, from what I had seen going back to the socialization of some men and I was thinking more heterosexual men there hasn’t really been that thought about how to hold space for those difficult conversations. Because sometimes what I had found with my partner, like, early on was a defensiveness, the shame and guilt would come up.

And they didn’t know how to manage it because they weren’t taught, they weren’t taught to be okay with difficult feelings and be okay with everything that comes up. They were just told to suppress and just only show anger. And so it’s interesting to see how we have sort of evolved, you know, managing our own mistakes and making mistakes and coming together to be able to communicate in that way.

But it takes work. Like people think, you know, I was reflecting, you know, when I got [00:41:00] married, I was like 27. So assume I’m going to make a decision when I was 27, that’s going to hold the same for like, it doesn’t like the whole life, you can’t assume you’re always going to feel the same way. And the good thing is that.

My husband and I have evolved and continue to desire to evolve. But it’s interesting how we make a decision when we’re 27 and we’re like, yeah, okay, this is how I’m always going to feel. But if anything, life is constantly changing and you’re always in a state of flux. So you don’t know if how you’re going to feel when you’re in your fifties.

Right.

Lyuba: Yeah. It’s kind of paradoxical. And then, and then the fairy tales like, we learn how, like, when you meet that perfect person, they will know, they will feel everything, they will know everything. And it’s just like, and the truth is that person doesn’t exist. And like, but what we can tell them, right, when I tell what I desire.

And [00:42:00] then my partner is so happy to do it, then he becomes that, that prince who does all the stuff, but I have to tell him because he doesn’t know

Gissele: otherwise. Yeah, yeah, that is, that is so true and it’s so funny because you mentioned fairy tales. If you actually look at those fairy tales, historically, I would say not so much now.

I think Disney has evolved to some level but historically, the end game was marriage. It wasn’t a successful relationship 50 years down the road. It was always just get the ring on your finger. They never showed Cinderella being in the castle, being all upset if the prince forgot their her birthday or whatever.

They never showed any of that. It was always end game was marriage. Now, I’m glad that it’s changed, but it’s interesting in my generation. The end game was that it wasn’t it wasn’t necessarily even having a successful marriage long term. It wasn’t even having a successful intimate relationship. It was you find this person.

Marry this person at the [00:43:00] end

Lyuba: and then what do you do then? Right? Yeah, exactly. Nobody told you. Yeah. When things are not working, we feel like, oh, something wrong with me. We feel shame about it. And we say we get quiet and we kind of like chug along. Right. But then, like, there are so much that I like, like all of these.

Tools, approaches. That’s what I, I love what I do because all of these scenes, like not only I get to share with people, I can apply into my life and it works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For, for sure. And that’s, and that’s how you make it. You make it work, you know. And another thing I wanted to say, like, man holding space for women.

So what you mentioned earlier that, that, that, I feel like, like, yes, that’s, that’s important and it needs to be practiced because it’s easier said than it is done, right? And, and so something that, like, I, I love, I just had this, like, coaching call with my, with my [00:44:00] men, men members and I shared I practiced with them.

I said, I have hedgehog for all of you. So I sent feedback form and no one filled it out. And I shared how I felt. Right. So I said that like I felt so like I don’t matter. And that you know, that I’m too much like all my feelings. Like I shared what I had. Right. And it was fascinating to see how. they immediately jumped into like, okay, I will fill it up right now.

I will like, I will like kind of explain and why they didn’t do it. And I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. Empathy, give me empathy. And then we practiced like, okay, like really feel what I feel. And that’s how you hold space, right? You just, you try to feel, you try to step into other person’s shoes and feel.

What they are feeling, right? And like, sometimes maybe help them to like, Oh, perhaps you feel this. Like, maybe you felt really sad. Right? And then [00:45:00] they will say like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or maybe, no, I didn’t feel sad. Right? So, we drop into feelings and we really feel instead of like, Solving it or apologizing or explaining yourself right away.

Gissele: It’s so funny. As you were mentioning that I immediately went to the thought of like, they’re trying to fix it so that you could stop emoting, like, do you know what I’m saying? Like, they’re like, I got to solve this problem right now, because what I have found is that. That some men’s discomfort with those emotions, because they can’t hold space for them, because that’s been conditioned out because you can’t hold space for their own difficult feelings.

The immediate response is got to fix this. So she’s fine. Got to respond and give her a reason. So she’s fine. And so it’s that need to immediately need to give something or do something or the other end of the extreme is silence. Some people just can’t manage it. So [00:46:00] then what they do is they go, they’re like, they do the freeze response.

So, you know, like a turtle or they’ll do that freeze response that animals do, which is like, can’t manage this difficult feeling. Is it going to go away if I don’t move? So it’s, it’s that it’s that being able to be in that difficult moment and I love how you’re giving them an opportunity to say, no, slow down.

Hold this space with me, manage your difficult emotions so that you can understand how to hold space. That is so huge in today’s society. We have no idea how to hold that kind of space for difficult dialogue. And that’s the thing, what is marriage, if anything, that you have to have difficult dialogue, right?

You have to have difficult conversations. You may not agree on how you’re managing the kids. You might not agree on. On whatever, but so being like on your bills, being able to hold [00:47:00] those conversations and have difficult conversations in a way that doesn’t shame or guilt the other person, but still honors your truth, I think is really, really key.

It’s really important.

Lyuba: It is. It is. And that’s what like, that’s what we need for connection. Yeah, that’s just see it in those like when I have hard feelings, don’t fix me because then I think something wrong with me, right? Be in those feelings with me, hold me. And that’s what requires the practice. And then when they do do it, right, like when my partner Is doing it today as of today, this is like, oh my God, like, this is so amazing.

This is, this is, this is wonderful. This is the most, this is tremendous, right? Like that’s, that’s how we have like satisfied this like amazing relationship. And I heard how they say that. When, when I’m in pain and emotional pain and to have another person who is willing to share that [00:48:00] pain with me, to just sit in that pain, that’s healing, just, just that is healing.

Just being there, listening, don’t have to fix, don’t have to come up with emotion solutions. Just be. And feel, and share, and hold, yes. And sometimes silence, maybe be in silence. That can be hard too, and that can be beautiful, to just be quiet with each other. And just like, sit in that.

Gissele: Yeah, I think it depends how you hold the silence against somebody in silence with love, with non judgment with not, but in the, or you could do the freeze response, which is like, and it’s like, okay, I don’t know what to do.

I’m just frozen solid and expecting, like, I don’t know how to manage. Because like, I think that can make a person feel. Not heard, like, and not witnessed, right? Because a person’s like, how long do I have to sit here before I can move [00:49:00] on? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oh, it’s so funny. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s very interesting. What have you found that the men that you work with say they need? In terms of like intimacy and relationships. And was it anything surprising?

Lyuba: So the touch, a lot of times the touch comes up. That like man really, really crave, really need touch. There is another scene that like being acknowledged, being appreciated a lot of times, like, man, they have these, like, they want to please you.

They want to be this, like, great lover. They want to do things and they don’t feel appreciated. And that’s like appreciation. That’s something that it’s like glue in relationship, just like sharing meaningful appreciations, not like, Oh, you’re a great partner, you’re a great man, not that just like, Oh my God, that’s like when you did, when you put that like painting on the wall, I just felt like a superhero entered my house.

I just, [00:50:00] it felt so great. Right. So just like really sharing those feelings, right? Like the happy feelings. Then man you know, just like there is something, there is something like the, the sexual aspect that penis like touching their genitals, like touching their penis in a non sexual environment.

It’s just like, I was, I was shocked when I realized that. Yeah. So what does that mean? So, so let me tell you this. I was, I was surprised myself for women. So that’s again, like for women, if someone comes to me and touch my genitals, I will be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like you need to warm me up for 14 minutes.

And then I feel like, okay, now I’m open. Now my pussy is on fire. Right. Oh man, there is something so connecting and so nourishing that like, let’s say we’re watching TV and I just hold his penis. And, and we know that I’m not inviting him to have [00:51:00] sex. There is, it’s something so nourishing. And again, check with your man, there are exceptions, right?

It’s not like It’s really interesting. Yeah. But this is like, like when I, with my, with my partner, when we talked about it, I’m like Don’t hold my genitals. I don’t like that if you’re not sexual, but for him, I just hold like we just we’re sitting there. I just hold gently and he’s soft like most likely.

So maybe he gets hard. So I’m just holding where it’s a sexual moment, but he feels He feels this, like, the sense of, like, he’s seen, he’s, like, that connection. There is something just, like, bringing extra, like, that non sexual touch to the penis. How amazing is that? No one ever told me until I figured it out.

Gissele: Yeah, and

Lyuba: I think

Gissele: what you’re pointing out to is very important, which is that communication with your partner about what feels good. Communication with your partner about how [00:52:00] We can help each other get there in that intimacy and how it can show up for your partner. It may be that touching that genital for other partners.

It may be differently. Right? It really there’s no right or wrong. It’s about how we can attain that same goal, which we all want, which is like, closeness and intimacy and sex and, you know, like, kind of like. Excitement in the relationship, right?

Lyuba: Yeah, yeah. I think it’s like the communication is key.

Communication is lubrication. That’s like, that’s, that’s, that’s where it starts.

Gissele: I can use it in any other context other than this conversation.

Lyuba: No, but it’s just like, it’s, it’s even lubrication for relationship. It’s like, like, it’s good for sex. Yes. And in general, it’s just like. It’s kind of, you know, like lubricates everything that’s like when we have those communication moments, [00:53:00] right?

Like when we can openly talk, then I can ask something that is edgy. Something that like, like for me, asking my partner to massage my shoulders, like I, I was afraid, you know, like, and I wanted every evening and I was afraid that like, oh, that’s too much or it will be like a burden for him. And the moment I asked, he was like, oh my God, I never thought about it.

Oh, it’s so good to know. Like now I get my shoulders massaged all the time. But before I asked, that wasn’t happening.

Gissele: Exactly. Yeah, I think it goes back to the whole aspect of vulnerability and, and, you know, as a, as a, as a child. You didn’t feel like you get your needs met by your parents, let’s say, for example, or the adults in your life, maybe it might feel a little bit scary and vulnerable to really ask for what you need.

Because I think sometimes you might feel afraid of being disappointed.

I’m not sure kind of like the kind [00:54:00] of conversations that the school systems have. I know conversations I had with my children to the extent that they’re open and willing to like both my husband and I are fairly open about things, but to the extent I would say I’m more closed off than he is.

 his mom is a nurse or was a nurse, and so she was very open with them about things because she didn’t want them to experience a lot of shame. so he’s much more open to talking about different things. And I certainly was not. I kind of had to get comfortable opening up on things.

we do kind of do a disservice to each other by not engaging in that open dialogue about pleasure, women’s pleasure in particular, and about communication about what we need.

Lyuba: Yeah. Yeah. And, and to add to that, that like, no matter how long I do it, every time there is something I’m about to bring up something that feels a little bit of a stretch, it feels like jumping in a cold plunge.[00:55:00]

Yeah. It’s like, there is this like nervousness, a little discomfort and biting my tongue and thinking like, maybe not, maybe not good time kind of convincing myself. And so what would I know to be true that every time I. Power through that, and I still do it. I might even say like, hey, I want to bring up something.

I feel nervous. Right. And then my partner already, he’s like, he’s holding the space. He’s like, extra curious. Now he’s like, very curious. Like, what is she like? What are you going to bring up? Yeah. And it’s just like holding that tenderness together. Right. And every time I bring it up, I’m so happy I brought it up.

So happy every time. Just like,

Gissele: yeah, this, question just popped into my head. Do you ever have like situations where what if your partner wanted something that was just like a no go for you,

 because I think. Fear gets in the way of us being open and honest. Like, I think if my partner said, I want to have a 3 or something, I’ll [00:56:00] be like, there is no way. Like, it’s just not something I would be like, no.

Right. And so I think that. Some people might be worried about opening up a can of worms of things that may not want to

Lyuba: experience. How do you manage that? Yeah, and that’s, that’s beautiful. I love how deep you go, Gissele. It’s just like, I feel like I could talk with you for hours. That’s just so good.

And if I saw you physically, I’d give you a hug. Yeah. So that’s like those things that a lot of times. We, we want something like, let’s say I might have fantasies that I even don’t want them to be true. Right. And so there is juice in talking about this. Right. And so, like, let’s say if I have fear, like, maybe I’m thinking about Srisam, like, let’s use your example.

Right. And I’m like, I’m afraid to scare my partner. Right. And I don’t know, like, and just to talk like, you know what, it’s not an invitation. It just [00:57:00] came to me and I want to share with you. I want, I want, like, I want to share everything with you. Like, I want to. You know that extra closeness because it does create extra closeness, right?

So this is my mind, where my mind went. And maybe, maybe I don’t even want to do it. Or maybe I do, but we will never do it. But I just want to share it. And just sharing it. I, like, sometimes I share stuff and we just both get so turned on that it facilitates that, like, yummy experience for us. And we will never have it in real life.

It just feels like too much, right?

Gissele: there’s a level of honesty that needs to happen. Like there’s a level of honesty and safety that you have to have in your relationship, right? For you to put stuff out there and not worry that you’re getting judged, right?

Like, I don’t know what if you’re like, like SNM or whatever, right? Like, and your partner’s like, oh, no, right? Like, you don’t, you don’t want to put something out there that you’re like, oh, they’re judging me from here [00:58:00] on. So there has to be a level of safety. There has to be a level of comfort that you are able to put stuff out there.

Yeah,

Lyuba: and you build it.

Yeah, like, like you start with smaller things. You like, maybe like share something less edgy. And as well, like, I always invite, like, whatever you feel, those fears speak them. That like, okay, honey, I want to share this, but I’m afraid you will judge

Gissele: me.

Lyuba: And just like, and putting that out there, it already It, it shapes them, they’re like, Oh my God, they see me as like that.

I can judge that. Like, I wonder what, right? Like, so it opens up like kind of learning each other. Conversation.

Gissele: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyuba: Because you can spend a long time, like you can spend years together and not know the depths of each other.

Gissele: Yeah. That is really interesting to me that, that.

You could be in the same household, and then some people don’t really know each other, or they don’t really spend time together and they [00:59:00] don’t really. Yeah, that there is, like, there’s no closeness, but. You’re sharing like, home, like you’re sharing, you know, like the time and space together in those moments.

And it’s amazing how, especially when you have resentment, like, when you have built resentment over things, and you don’t, like you said, you don’t deal with the hedgehogs, you have to deal with the hedgehogs. Otherwise, like, a new hedgehog come up in, in. When you’re bringing it up in conversation, this is one of the things I used to do that my husband pointed out to me was that if I had a hedgehog and there was a new one there, I would bring them both at the same time.

Like this one, and then this other hedgehog, and then this hedgehog. And then they say, it’s like, wait a minute. You didn’t tell me about the other two hedgehogs. Like, why are you bringing up all three now? Right. So I really had to look and say, okay, you know what? Like, first of all, that’s not fair.

We have to manage each hedgehog individually as it happens, so that I’m [01:00:00] not bringing three hedgehogs, four hedgehogs, five hedgehogs to the conversation.

Lyuba: And kill him with hedgehogs. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, because when you share a hedgehog, you want to see how they respond.

It’s good if he is like having empathy and he’s holding you, he might get triggered and now you might want to step in and take care of him. Right. So I just, I know when we have this hedgehog conversation, when we did it right at the end, we feel like having a hug or a kiss, or we just like, we feel hot for each other, right?

There is that closeness happens. If that doesn’t happen, if we’re done with our conversation and we feel distance. Yeah, there’s still another

Gissele: little hedge, baby hedgehog, but I agree with that. I think I agree with that [01:01:00] completely. Yeah. As we are coming up to the end of our episode I have two more questions for you.

I ask my guests all of this question what’s your of unconditional love.

Lyuba: So for me, that when I can love person without Attaching to them without like claiming them that I’m like, you know what, I love you like really love you and I’m not attached to them loving me back. It’s they, they, they don’t have to love me back and I’m not attached to like having like, Oh, you’re mine and now I own you and you don’t go anywhere.

And so I love this analogy of like, I just heard about it. Like they hold your hands. Like for those who are listening just like you both of your like palms up and you hold your hands together and imagine there [01:02:00] is a bird. So you hold them together because there is a baby bird and you don’t want to drop it.

So you hold this baby bird. But then you don’t close it like this, that like, Oh, I’m like, you’re not going anywhere, right? So you still like, you don’t drop it, but you have your hands open, palms up. And like the bird, you know, might fly away or by just sit there in this openness. And so this is the healthy attachment.

That’s how I see unconditional love.

Gissele: I love that you said that, because I think often we think that. Attachment is love, that possessiveness is love when it is not love. And I have, I totally understand that. I have felt that for the people in my life and I’m like, you know what? Be happy. Even if it’s not with me, I just want you to be there.

The happiest version of yourself, like that you’re living your dreams. And so when you truly love people and love them from that [01:03:00] place, they don’t even have to, like, they don’t have to love you back. You can just love them. Just, just because, just because they’re just because of their beingness, just because you choose to love them.

And I think that’s really, really key. So I just want you to share where can people find you? What discounts are you going to offer people? Like, what, what, What work are you, do you want to share with our audience? Yeah, yeah.

Lyuba: I am, I’m just, I’m very excited for my program that I have for men. It’s called Authentic Lover and how it was, how it was inspired that I used to do pleasure retreats for women.

And so many women would say like, Oh my God, I learned all of the things about myself. I know what I want in relationship in bedroom. I don’t feel like telling my partner. I just like how we talked, right? That like, it’s so important to share. And yet being a human, it’s hard. And so many people don’t do it.

Right. And they say, if only [01:04:00] my partner could be a fly on the wall and like watch all of this and like learn all of this. Yeah. And that’s what like, I’m, you know what, let me do that. And so now I have, I have, I work with men and I’m being. Female coach that I know from myself being a woman right as well.

I’ve worked with a lot of women. So in a very vulnerable way I share. in depth what women want, you know, and that’s just like, that’s so like, that’s so eye opening for a lot of men. And, and we, like, I have pre recorded videos. So it’s a program where like they go their own pace and there is like communication section, which is lubrication, then intimacy section, and then sex section.

So we cover all of it. And then every week we have coaching calls where we we talk and we practice and oh my god So so we have links Giselle has links and they offer 10 10 percent [01:05:00] discount for the first month of subscription. So for those of you who Feel like joining. I would love to have you. Nice.

That’s

Gissele: wonderful. And those links are going to be available in the transcript as well as the links to your programs and your website. We usually have a transcript. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Thank you Lyuba. I could talk to you literally all day. Oh my God. So much fun. And I, I think you were definitely, this is your destiny.

This is your call. This is what you were meant to do. Cause you know, that the, the, The openness and authenticity that exudes from you is just amazing. And, you know, and it’s, I think, such an important topic for men to, to be able to have the space to be able to practice that, especially like vulnerability and intimacy.

I think it’s such a beautiful work.

Lyuba: so much for joining us. I love your presence. I love your questions. I love how you feel into it and you are with me, you know, [01:06:00] so much fun. I can’t wait to share with my people. Yeah, for sure. I’m excited. Yeah,

Gissele: for sure. For sure. And thank you for joining us for another episode of the loving compassion podcast with Giselle.

See you soon.

Lyuba: Bye.

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