Gissele Taraba: [00:00:00]
Hello. And welcome to the love and compassion podcast with Gissele.
We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives and our world. Don’t forget to like, and subscribe for more amazing content. Today, we’re going to talk about people pleasing and how compassion can help us address those needs.
Today I’m talking with Tina O Hoang, who is a disabled recovering people, pleaser and podcaster.
She strives to ensure women have the space to choose themselves and to share their courageous stories. Whether it be changing how They’re perceived within a family dynamic, leaving a comfortable nine to five or advocating for themselves. She believes that women of color are allowed to take the first step and don’t need permission to do so.
After someone told her that her passivity was unattractive, she took it and decided to become as assertive and courageous as she could ever be. With a master’s [00:01:00] degree in career counseling, Tina also understands the hardship of career changes
She knows that even when we’re scared of making the first step, we need to just say F it and do it anyways.
Please join me in welcoming Tina. Hi Tina. Hi Giselle. Yay. Thank you for having me. Oh no, thank you for being on the show. Let’s talk people pleasing. As a person who is the complete opposite, because I didn’t feel loved or accepted, I just went, screw it. I’m just going to do what I can.
And I was so confrontational. So if you could share a little bit with me about how the opposite feels, the people pleasing and what got you to be in that state.
Tina Juan: Yeah. So I think for the longest time, I think honestly, like, My feeling like how you are, it was deep inside me this whole time.
F everything..
I don’t care about it. I just want to do everything. But somehow, I think maybe within my own culture, family is important. [00:02:00] Because in my culture, whatever you do as a child reflects to your parents and people blame. My parents, if I were to act differently, so like if I went to act out and just like screw everything, you know, do all the bad things you could think of, there’s like, Oh, is your mom’s fault?
That’s why she can’t raise you. Right. Or is your dad’s fault? They, he didn’t know how to discipline you in the right way. And so everything goes back to my parents and. You know, growing up too is honestly, first few things I remember of making sure my mom was always happy. I think that’s like the main thing for me is like,we grew up in a single household, and she was always, she was working double shift every single day, like seven days a week.
She was, she was a business owner, and the fact that, um, the fact that she [00:03:00] would leave work for like, for lunch. Come over, come to school, hang out with me and my brother, and then go back to school and then go back to work. Yeah, and so, you know, so there was this, so there was this, um, precedent of mom is making all these sacrifices for us.
as a single mom, I need to make sure that whatever she does is makes her happy.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah,
Tina Juan: and also need her to accept me as a person because she’s because I think in the ages around, I think the primal age is like zero to seven.
That’s where like, Okay. You really need your parents around that time, she was working, you know, and that gravitation of like, I need people to love me, I need people to like me, if they don’t, then if I don’t act a certain way, they’ll leave, they’ll leave me forever. And so that kind of that grew the notion of like, [00:04:00] pleasing people pleasing all this time.
Making sure that whoever and whoever, anyone is around me is okay. And then also that comes into like, being responsible for other people all the time. I get so mad sometimes because we’re not responsible for other people’s feelings. Only our own.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah.
Tina Juan: I tend to also like, monitor, emotional monitor other people around me all the time.
I saw my brain is working 24 seven. It doesn’t take a break. that’s a lot of energy taking out of me where I could have using the energy to focus on myself.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. As you were talking, it made me really think about how similar we were, even though I originally thought we had a different perspective, uh, because I also felt the same way in terms of wanting to protect my mother in particular for her to be happy.
But then I [00:05:00] discovered very early that that didn’t work. And so then I took the opposite approach of like saying, screw you. Like, if you say up, I use, I sit down. If you say white, I say black, like complete opposite, but the needs were the same, the need to be loved, to accept it, to take care of, I still had those.
I just didn’t feel I was very successful in, in meeting their needs. And so if I’m playing a losing battle, why bother? Um, but I, as you were talking, I resonated so much with what you were saying, because I remember having those same feelings. Um, and so even though we’re coming at it from a different approach, the feelings are the same.
When did you discover you were actually a people pleaser? Like, was it after that comment or was it something that came in layers?
Tina Juan: I think it came in layers like I knew I was a people pleaser, but then like, it never came to fruition until that comment,
because
even after that comment, I then I asked all my friends, [00:06:00] my, some of my closest friends, I was asking them, Hey, am I passive?
Am I passive? Am I passive? And all of them said, Yes, you are.
And I’m like, oh my goodness. and you know, even the notion you were saying about, Like, getting, feeling accepted and feeling loved by your parents, and I did have a raging component in there too, like, where my mom tells me I’m always stubborn.
Gissele Taraba: The
Tina Juan: term called, we call it, like, she say, this is literally, like, why are you so stubborn?
She would say, that’s how I’m gonna lead, right? That’s how I’m gonna lead. Which is like, why are you so stubborn? Or like, I’m like, that is why, like, that is why I’m stubborn. Cause my inner self, she’s trying to get out and say, this is what I want. This is what I need whenever I ask for something. Because my mom’s in a sense of like, I’m doing.
I know what’s [00:07:00] best for you.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah.
And as you mentioned, you know, culture plays such a big role in it because, you know, as a parent now, you know, thinking about what you said to be blamed for my kids behaviors. I mean, I have no control over, I mean, my husband and I have hopefully taught these kids all of the important values.
But at the end of the day, they’re going to choose how they live their life and they have the right to. But for me then to be judged on my kids behavior that must be really difficult. And hence why parents Control, right? Like try to control their kids behavior and it sort of creates this endless cycle.
Um, it makes it, it makes parenting really hard, right? At what point did you just decide and say, you know what? Like, I, I really can’t be responsible for my. Parents happiness,
Tina Juan: that is still a work in progress. Like, right now.
Yeah,
Gissele Taraba: yeah, that’s fair.
Tina Juan: Yeah. But then it’s still [00:08:00] it, but then at the same time, it’s gotten a lot better since then it’s been about. Five year 2019 that’s when the comment came in of like my passivity was unattractive. the first thing action I did was asking my mom to not ever open my mail.
So that was like the first hurdle of like, I would whenever she tried to open else I find make it to make her keep her happy like I don’t like it. But she’s concerned, I don’t want to ruffle, I don’t want to ruffle the feathers. So that was where it start, you know, accumulating since then.
Gissele Taraba: What was the response?
Tina Juan: Lash out. Really? She didn’t understand it. I mean, I understand where she was coming from, from that moment, just, you know, worry and making sure that we are okay, that if there’s a, if there’s an important mail that we can get, we can get to it right away because I, I don’t live with her. So sometimes just certain mails that comes to her house.
I just get it later. [00:09:00] And so, but yeah, it wasn’t a good reaction at all. And still, there’s some moments I just have to pick my battles, you know, like she still does it. Till today, since then, and I’m just like, you know what? It’s like, I don’t want to put more energy than I already did.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah. It’s the same with kids, right?
Like you, you kind of have to, you do have to pick your battles in terms of like, it’s like a baby step at a time, right? good for you for at least sharing that perspective. I can only imagine as a single parent, it must have been challenging to make sure that your kids were okay. Right.
And it must feel scary to, especially if I don’t know if she has a relationship or not, it must feel. feel scary to let go of that need to mother, uh, especially if that was your whole identity. Um, how has this influenced your desire to be a parent or not?
Tina Juan: well, I’ve chosen to be a pet mom instead of an actual human.
Gissele Taraba: [00:10:00] Nice. Pets are awesome. Yeah.
Tina Juan: So that, so that kind of influenced. Well. Cool. In a way that did influence me, but overall there’s more responsibility in taking care of a human versus like a pet. So I prefer to put my energy on that, like I have two cats right now and I love them to death.
As
regards a human, I’m okay.
Me and my partner, we’re both, we’re both okay not having children. And so, and we’re okay with that as well too, but there was some influence, but not as much.
Gissele Taraba: I think that’s a very Brave choice. Now, you have the right to change your mind or to keep yourself as a, as a personal lifestyle choice. Um, but it’s so amazing how women in particular are expected to play this mother role.
You have to have children. That’s like your be all And so when people decide to not have children, there’s this real power. Backlash that people face. Um, I don’t [00:11:00] know if you experienced it, but I remember as soon as I got married, there was expectations like, okay, when are you going to have children?
When are you going to have children? And it’s like, exactly. But you would think with the amount of pressure that women face to be mothers, that mothers would be kept up here, but there is so much. Backlash you never doing it right. so you would think that that would be a role that would be elevated as, as high as, um, I don’t know, athletes, but it’s not, it’s not, it’s.
Difficult to have children in this and I’m not talking physically. I’m talking emotionally because like you said, it’s like your heart, you give them all your heart and love and you, and eventually they’ve got to fly the coop and that’s their right. And they got a right to live their life. And so you do feel fear for them.
You feel love, you feel all of these things. Um, and so it, it’s as much as, as rewarding as it is. It can also feel really challenging at times, especially when they struggle. Yeah. Oh,
Tina Juan: right. I mean, like, because even me [00:12:00] as like a pet mom too, like I recently lost my dog in January. Oh,
Gissele Taraba: I’m so sorry.
Tina Juan: No, it’s okay.
Thank you. Appreciate it. Like he, I, I had him for 14 years. So he’s, he’s 14. it’s still kind of fresh here and there, but the, I feel like that’s the same thing. Like you’re losing a part of your heart. Yeah, I’m losing someone and then it’s the same thing as having, I feel like there’s no difference of having a human child versus a dog.
Gissele Taraba: I have both. I have a, a 12 year old baby, which I call my 12 year old, uh, Doberman Shepard. Yeah. And he’s my baby and he’s never going to die.
That’s it. That’s why people ask me how old he is and they’re people like, Oh, how old is your dog? I’m like, he’s 12 and he’s never going to die. So I like, I don’t even engage in the conversation.
I’m like, Nope. Nope. Yes. Never ever. Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
Um, I wanted to talk a little bit about [00:13:00] this 4B movement that’s happening. I believe in South Korea, I don’t know if it’s a hundred percent correct. And I had seen this on Tik Tok and I was really interested because, you know, some people say, well, it’s not as big as people are making it out, but it’s really catching fire in terms in the Tik Tok community, because from what I’ve learned is like a group of women that have to say Now Let me back up in South Korea has one of the lowest or the lowest birth rates.
So right now, yeah, babies are not being like, they’re just not being born. And so the government is really worried about like, but what’s happening? Like, we’re going to have a whole bunch of old people. I know young people to take care of them. And, one of the reasons that has come out, um, is that there is this, I don’t know if it’s small or large, There’s this group of women who have decided it’s called the four B movement to never to not marry and not have children that just decided this is not [00:14:00] the life I’m going to lead.
This is not what I’m going to do. And this is very much against convention. And all of these North American women are like, oh, my God, what a good decision. Take our power back. Because women have historically, we have suffered from gender issues in terms of wages, you know, like facing rape, abuse, all of these things.
And I believe that people are seeing this 4 B movement is women taking their power back and making a choice. What are your thoughts?
Tina Juan: Oh, no, I agree on that because I’ve always hear people, you know, saying like, are we as women are just a vessel for to produce, you know, and just to only abide to other people.
People, and so I really, oh my gosh, Barbie, that’s like kind of my route to because eventually I, my partner even thought about not even getting married like we’re okay not getting married like we’re both agreeing on it. Well, I think I decided like thinking like, yeah, I’m cool with that too. So, it’s kind of like, you know, it’s [00:15:00] kind of.
Amazing that there are women, at least in South Korea, they’re standing for themselves and empowering themselves, like putting the foot down, like, no means no. We’re not, we don’t want to do this. We don’t want to have kids. We don’t want to get married. You can’t make us. Because we are our own person. So I love that.
I love that so much.
Gissele Taraba: And I think, you know, going back to the whole people pleasing, that really goes against convention and it really goes against the expectation of, well, like if you’re not there for that, then what’s your purpose. Right. And it makes me think of the women’s suffrage movement. There was a time before women got the vote where they, they literally stopped society.
They, they stopped going to work. They stopped cleaning. They stopped. Cooking, right. And now in our today’s world, it’s much more balanced. Like my dad, my husband has all does all of the cooking. Like my dad used to do all the cooking as well. Like, so we kind of have like, uh, a different relationship in the sense of it’s not traditionally [00:16:00] male, traditionally female.
but many families still have that traditional role. And so it’s interesting to see how women across the globe are really gravitating towards that. And I’m not saying that’s the answer. I mean, you’re in a relationship, as you mentioned, you’re just not making the choices that have historically been made.
We are rethinking, I mean, traditional conventions. And I think that’s kind of the, the epitome of non people pleasing. Wouldn’t you say?
Tina Juan: Oh, no, it took, actually. Now you’re saying it. Thank you. I didn’t realize that because like, for the longest time, I guess, for me, when I think of like people pleasing, I think of like, not saying no, like verbally, not saying no, always saying yes to people saying yes to that.
Everything that people ask of you always say yes. But I didn’t think about that of like, no to having [00:17:00] kids, no to having getting married or just certain things that I don’t abide to. That’s not attained to people pleasing, because
Gissele Taraba: It goes against the grain, it goes against the norms and it makes people really uncomfortable because, and I think that’s, that’s where people are really having an emotional reaction to that, you know, and I always say that, you know, I noticed someone else sometimes is a yes to myself, right?
So, sometimes when I’m very honest about when I don’t want something, it’s because I’m saying yes to me, yes to me. Putting my boundaries. Yes, to me, not doing something I don’t want to do. Um, but you know, like, I don’t normally struggle with that except my kids. My kids just like, sometimes when they’re like, they like, they keep going and going.
I’m like, oh, okay. And so that’s where I’m like, okay, so maybe I’m not as. Clear my boundaries as it comes to when it comes to my kids, you know, I don’t know what [00:18:00] it is about them. It’s just, I think I, I, it’s that element of wanting to make, to see them happy. But that doesn’t always equal their happiness, right?
Like you mentioned,
Tina Juan: right? Yeah. Cause every time our kids, my pets, they want something different. Like I just want to, all I want to do with my cats is just smother them with love, like hold them. And then you’re like, Oh my God, like, I know their faces, like, get away from me, like cats in particular
Gissele Taraba: must be like, Oh, even my dog too.
I do the same thing. And my dog’s like, I make my dog uncomfortable and unconditionally loving
my dog’s like, Oh, when is this going to be done? Okay. There’s
Tina Juan: a dog too. My dog where he would like, uh, he would growl at me cause he knows a certain like, you know, they know what’s going to come after. Cause like, I, I’m a very petite person, but then like, I project strong emotions.
So that’s also something to recently too, is me not caring anymore. Cause I have so much energy as a person, like positive, either way, like [00:19:00] positive, negative energy, like very intense energy. Some growing up, I was told to just tame it. Like calm down, relax. And so I would always keep check of like how much energy am I putting out?
It’s best to be small. It’s best to shrink as a people pleaser. It’s best to do that. But now I’m. letting myself air out being more playful, being more like energetic and just like play and not caring at all. And yeah, it just feels like, and that’s why I’m able to love my, my babies. My girl is more often because I’m
exuding all that energy, you know, they’re like, Oh my gosh, too much.
Gissele Taraba: And thank you for mentioning that, because that’s another aspect of people pleasing as well as asking people to extinguish their light so that they can be average so that they don’t trigger other people in showing their light. And so I think that’s allowing ourselves to do that is another aspect of people pleasing.[00:20:00]
Um, and one that maybe isn’t probably as common, like you mentioned, it’s like always saying. Yes. And never saying no, but extinguishing our own light for other people to please them is an aspect of people pleasing. No, it
Tina Juan: is. And yeah,
Gissele Taraba: I wanted to know, so what helped you shift from that to one where you say F-it, I’m doing it anyways, what helped you shift where some of the things that you did that really kind of said, even if it’s like evolving, what are some of the things that really helped you go from that?
people pleasing to one of like, I’m going to step up into my power and doing it anyways, even if I’m afraid.
Tina Juan: Yeah, I, um, so after that comment, right, the passivity was unattractive. The first thing I did was, well, first thing I did was cry like a bunch. I cried and cried. And then eventually I kinda just sat with it Cause I had two [00:21:00] decisions, Right, two decisions of like agreeing that I will forever like forever be existence of people pleaser.
This is my route. This is my existence to be alive right now is to make other people be more important than me. Right. And the other decision was. Yeah, like you said, fuck it. No, that’s not me. I’m not that person. Um, I know I want to be assertive. I want to do it. And so right after that, too, was I did was a lot of journaling, having a very quick call with a counselor.
So as a resource where you talk to a counselor, very quickly, just briefly on what you are feeling. So it’s not like the suicide line, Whereas like, you know, like you’re boiling, like the analogy, the water is boiling, but the water is simmering and you’re just feeling some type of way, but you just want to let it out.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah. And what, what did you call it? The warm line?
Tina Juan: Yeah. The warm line. They have [00:22:00] each, each state has their own.
Gissele Taraba: Oh, I didn’t know that. Wow. That’s fascinating. That’s really supportive. That’s amazing. Go ahead. Sorry.
Tina Juan: I recommend all your listeners to, like, use the warm line for anyone to use it, because it really helped me get through that, that, not, it’s not really that dark, but just like that really muddy time for me to figure out where I want to be in life, you know, in regards of the people.
Pleasing. And then over time with that to my self awareness came about one with like going through graduate school and journaling and reading my inner child came was more like in my face when there’s a certain something going on and I see her I’m like, Oh, Okay, what do I do now?
Because, I call her tiny Tina, even though we’re the same height, we have not, we have not grown at all. That’s hilarious.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah. Yeah. Tiny [00:23:00] Tina. Yep.
Tina Juan: So like tiny Tina, she’s like, she’s at the ripe age of 15 and that’s where my inner child is. So whenever there’s something going on and I don’t want to do something, she starts getting anxious.
And so I see her sometimes. Of like bashing herself or like anxiety going back and forth, making sure that we need to please the people around her at all times.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah.
Tina Juan: And so I really had to sit down with her multiple times and telling her like, you’re okay, you’re safe.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah.
Tina Juan: You don’t have to do that. You don’t have to do what other people want.
What do you want? And just sitting with her with it. And sometimes she understands at the level that the intellectual level that she is a 15. She’s she understands. And there are other times where she gets the best like she has more energy, where, [00:24:00] where, which means that her stubbornness comes into play.
Gissele Taraba: And
Tina Juan: then I, so like sitting down and sitting with her and being compassionate with her, sometimes it doesn’t actually work. So I just have to be like, not the mean parent, but like, I see you, honey, I see you, but just sit your ass down. We’re going to do this. We’re going to do it anyways. And just come with me.
Like, you’re safe. I think that’s also like, she’s still scared and anxious, but I’m still giving her compassion. And at the top of that, it’s like the firmness of the age I am now. Just sit with me. You’re fine. Just sit down. Yeah. Like it’s not that I’m leaving her behind. She’s still here with me. I’m just like, okay, just sit down with me.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah. Yeah. And you’re helping her feel that in, in sort of dip her toe in into that safety, right? Um, and I love that you mentioned compassion and I love that you mentioned the inner child healing. Um, just as a strategy I [00:25:00] myself have used, uh, to feel safe for the longest time I didn’t feel safe. And so I have really had to reparent myself around feelings of safety.
Um, but sometimes it just feels so strong, those feelings of fear, right? And so to say, you know, you are safe, I got you. You’re okay. I got you. I think it’s really, really powerful, really powerful.
Tina Juan: It is. And it is also really fun to, to kind of see the thing that West. It’s like, it’s like real time right now.
It’s like seeing how much she trusts me now than when I first started because there was a constant, the battle would be for days in the beginning of like, I really want to do this. I really want to do that. No, no, don’t do that. Mom’s going to get mad. People are going to get mad. Whoever is going to love
Gissele Taraba: you.
Tina Juan: Yeah, or like you anymore. But now she’s like, okay, I got okay. I’m still scared. But I know you’re you keep me safe. And also like what I’ve [00:26:00] learned recently to go to therapy as well, is I didn’t realize there’s the bot my mental compassion, like mental compassion versus body compassion, in the sense of like, telling her like, you’re safe, you’re, you’re know, it’s gonna hurt you that you’re going to be your own person.
All the affirmations, but I forget to, to soothe my body because her body is feeling tense because of all that. And so now that what I do for me is like squeezing my arms, squeezing my legs, just giving that sense of hugging her. Hey, you’re here. You’re safe. Like, and then, then my body starts to relax more and then I’m more straightforward, but yeah, it’s a, it was.
It’s still, of course, I don’t think we’ll ever go away where I’ll have my inner child just banging at me at the door. It’s like, get me out of here. I don’t want to be here. I don’t want [00:27:00] to think. It’s like, you can’t do this. Can’t do that. No. You know, but just letting her know like, hey, you’re good. You’re good.
I’m here. I’m here with you. Let’s hold hands. And I literally hold my hand, like my right hand. Also, also a quick note too, like I grew up having a disability. So my right hand, um, I have cerebral palsy. So my right hand, it’s. It’s affected. So there is, you know, some limitations to it. So I utilize that as my, my younger self.
And then my left hand is like, not affected. So half of my body is affected. My left side is good. My right side affected. So I would hold hands with her, hold my, hold my hands. And she’s like, I got you you’re safe. And then she’s saying, yeah. And so I love that.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah, I absolutely love that. Um, and what you said is really so powerful and so important.
So I want my listeners to, Don’t take a note of it because that physical component is so important as we [00:28:00] saw in COVID people were so separate, they couldn’t touch one another. There was, there was so much isolation. And like you mentioned in compassion practice, there’s the touching of the chest, you know, like you put your hand on your heart or on your leg, or you can, you know, like rub your shoulder.
And what it does is releases oxytocin. And so we can do that for ourselves if we don’t have anyone to do that for us. And it does kind of soothe that it’s, it’s like physical touch is so important. So when you can’t get your mind in order, you can do that physical touch. And that’s like, it’s a great strategy for people to use to be able to bring themselves back.
And I love that you are able to offer that to yourself as if you’re two different people, but it’s, it’s, it’s just one you, but the fact that you’re able to hold your own hand and be there for yourself is so powerful and so important because people don’t realize that they can do that. They always think, Oh, it has to be external.
Somebody has to love me externally outside of me. Um, [00:29:00] I wonder what your thoughts are about, like, you know, people pleasing and all of those sort of behaviors. Ultimately, it’s about us wanting to be loved, right? Part of about that self love, um, did you feel was really in need when you were people pleasing?
Tina Juan: To accept me for who I am, really, that’s where it is. It’s like I said earlier, I have a lot of energy, really big energy, like just I just last week I went to the beach with my partner and he he’s more of the grounded type so he’s walking. For me, I was like bouncing everywhere going in the water, out the water, outside the water, jumping into the sand.
Throwing up sand, throwing up water, like, just like being a kid again, you know, being really playful and just enjoying myself with the energy that I can encapsulate. I have so much energy, like, I have a [00:30:00] very small, I’m only five foot, five feet. And so I just, you know, You know, just accepting me as me that’s like the big component for me.
It’s like, can you hold my energy if I let it out? Like, can you hold that space for me to give my energy out, you know? And then, right. Thankfully. And I love it that my partner can hold that whenever I exude it, like he can’t, he can’t go to that level of course, but he’s okay. But he puts his glasses
Gissele Taraba: on for the wattage, right?
He puts his glasses on. He’s like, lets you shine bright. Right.
Tina Juan: Yes, and just like yes, yes, and so yeah, yeah, so it’s just like that is accepting me as me and not trying to mold me into taming, dimming, diminishing my energy of what I can take because I can run like a freaking mouse
going on a wheel.
Gissele Taraba: And [00:31:00] then that’s awesome to have that much energy. It’s, it’s amazing. It’s amazing. one of the things you mentioned, um, is that, you know, sometimes you have fear in stepping forward and shining your light fully. How did you deal with that fear? That’s those fears that sometimes come up.
Tina Juan: I only when I’m exhausted, like I’m tired of going through that motion all the time, the fear going, and I literally, I literally just say, like, just fuck it, I’m just gonna do it.
I’m just gonna do it. I’m like, I’m tired. I’m tired. Like, that’s where the when the I’m so tired of fear running through my mind
Gissele Taraba: So
Tina Juan: yeah, so I think for me, I just put myself into like exhaustion and then I’m like, okay, well, I’m doing it. And then here I am. And I was like, I just did it. Awesome. Why didn’t I, why did it take so long?
Gissele Taraba: Is it terrifying in the moment,
in the moment when you’re doing it?
Is there, what helps you get through [00:32:00] that fear in the moment?
Tina Juan: In the moment? No, I don’t. I just like, oh. Cool. I just did it. And then the fear comes back. Okay.
Gissele Taraba: But then you’re like, but I just did it.
So you’re okay.
Tina Juan: Yeah. Like the action just is done. The action is done. But then now the fear comes back of like perfectionism and that’s where it’s like, Oh dang, did I just, did it look good?
I don’t know. And so that, then the fear comes in and I have to do the whole cycle again.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah. Yeah. Perfectionism. People pleaser’s ugly cousin. Yes. So
Tina Juan: ugly.
Gissele Taraba: So, so terrible. I don’t even know where we got this concept that we had to be perfect. That you know, like it’s just, it’s such a disservice. We’re all perfectly imperfect and that’s what makes us all beautiful and different.
Um, what role did perfectionism have in your life in terms of the, how it influenced the people pleasing? Oh,
Tina Juan: it stopped me [00:33:00] from doing things that really made me happy. For example, so dancing is like one of the things I loved.
It makes me so happy when I dance. It doesn’t matter how it is. It’s, if you get my body moving, I feel my body feeling lighter. Like it’s one of those things where I’m not thinking of anything, but. Myself in that moment of freedom, happiness, joy, and the perfection came into it was when I was younger, we were like in a church group, and they had like a auditions for dancing like being like dancing for Lunar New Year.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah,
Tina Juan: because of my disability, I decided I can’t do that I can’t perfect the dances because of my disability like it’s going to be wonky it’s going to look a certain way. Okay. And so I just been simmering on it. Like I have to be perfect. I have to be perfect in this dances. And if I don’t do it, then I can’t do it.
And so I ended [00:34:00] up not doing it. And I regret doing that because of my perfectionism coming in. It was like, it has to be perfect if I do it and I can’t do it because of my disability, then it’s best for me to just step away and not do it. And so it’s just like, Yeah, it’s one of those things where it’s just annoying for me looking back, but then also reminding myself that I can start today.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah.
Tina Juan: Just dance again.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah.
Tina Juan: Yeah. Just have fun. Just enjoy myself.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah. Did you, uh, ever experience the need to have to forgive yourself for some of the choices you made or didn’t make?
Tina Juan: Hell yeah. All the time. Can you talk a little bit about
Gissele Taraba: that? Oh
Tina Juan: as I was saying earlier, my inner child is 15 years old, right? Yeah. So there’s already that huge concept of when you’re in high school, your first impression is first key, the first thing, like, yeah, for sure. [00:35:00] Yeah. Right. And so she still has that concept. She still has that mindset of it.
And so there are times when there are easier things that are not the core, like my onion thing of an onion, like anything that’s like really close, like to the core, I still haven’t forgiven myself yet. Like, things that really are my core values, my core beliefs, I still haven’t forgiven myself for the decisions I made for those, like, for example, the dancing, like, dancing is one of my core beliefs of what brings me joy and happiness, like, I can still dance today, but I regret not doing that when I was, I think I was 12 or 13 years old, I regret not doing that because I could have been a dancer today, you know, like short showcasing what is like to be a dancer and also have a disability at a young age, because when you’re dancing, you’re younger and you’re dancing like you have more flexibility, [00:36:00] more room to like really try out different moves.
I’m in my 30s, I still can do it, but then it’s just different if you were younger and trying it. But then, like, if it were to be closer to the outer layers of my onion, like outside my core values, it’s easier, it’s easier to forgive. Like, eventually, I, like, for example, I didn’t, actually, like, well, today, too, actually, today, I feel guilty because I asked, a woman to price match an item that I saw online that was different from the in the store and I didn’t tell her like, thank you for going through this trouble to doing this.
I was like, thank you for the receipt and then walked away. I was like 10, 10 steps away. I was like, I didn’t turn around. I could have turned around, should have turned around, but then I ended up just kept walking in that I called the worm just before our session about it, [00:37:00] feeling, I don’t know if I can let this go.
Like, it’s so hard to let this go, because it’s going to eat me. It’s like, I didn’t appreciate what she did for me, going through the hard work to price match. And sometimes I’m trying to tell myself that it’s okay, you’re safe.
Gissele Taraba: You
Tina Juan: can learn from it.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah,
Tina Juan: I think also tying with the people pleasing is we tend to take a lot of things personally.
Gissele Taraba: Hmm. Yeah,
Tina Juan: because Yeah. Oh, go ahead. I think you have to say something.
Gissele Taraba: Oh, no, no. I, I, yeah. Like the personalizing part of it. I was just going to ask in terms of like, um, have you ever, have you considered, um, maybe saying that what you wanted to say from an energy perspective, like not physically, but emotionally, like, you know, like the same way [00:38:00] that you hold your hand of your 15 year old.
Um, would you consider like thinking about that same circumstance and just saying it and experiencing it as you would have wanted to experience and getting that opportunity to say it from an energy perspective?
Tina Juan: Um, what do you mean by that? Just like,
Gissele Taraba: what I mean is, so, you know, when you speak to your younger self, right?
Like, technically you’re interacting and you’re soothing some of the old wounds. Yes. One of the things I like to do is that when I experience something that I struggle with, um, for example, or, or I struggle with someone, um, and I can’t speak to them physically, I will speak to them energetically, like spiritually.
So I will actually go into meditative state and then relive that experience in the way that I wanted to experience it. So in your case, it would be like me reliving that and actually. Saying thank you, thank you and sending them that love from [00:39:00] the state of where of that meditated state. Um, so, so that we, um, number 1, it helps me to release it.
Um, because then I’m not stuck in that loop of like, oh, I wish I had. And secondly, it actually surprisingly has. Worked like, it’s very strange. I don’t know exactly how it works, but it’s, it’s worked with me with challenging students. Like, when I’ve had, I’m a prof in contract faculty and when I had a struggle with a student.
Uh, long story short, like they were sending me some angry emails and I was like, you know what? I kind of took a pause and just said, you know, cause I was starting to stress. I was like, starting like, oh my God, do I have to redo this marking? Do I have to talk to the dean? I’m contract faculty. Is this going to impact?
And I was like, you know what? I’m going to stop. What do I want to experience? And I said to myself, I want to experience this working out for me and for the student. It’s working out with ease and grace. First, I’m going to address my own difficult feelings with love, [00:40:00] send myself love and send the student love.
And then I emailed them back and say, why don’t we chat? Like I had previously sent an email explaining it. That wasn’t good enough. I said, why don’t we just do I’m happy to chat with you because you’re important to me. Hoping to make the time to explain and go through absolutely step by step how I came up with this mark.
And I sent that email, went to bed, but went to bed imagining that everything had been sorted out. I don’t hear for a few days and then I get an email saying everything is resolved. No problem. No need to meet. You’re a wonderful teacher, have a wonderful life. And so I’ve had instances where I’ve actually been able to resolve conflict, if you may, this way, like it just from an energy perspective.
Um, so just let me know if you would be interested in trying it. All you’d have to do is just put yourself in a meditative state and relive the event and just basically say, thank you. And in circumstance, let’s see how it goes. Maybe it doesn’t work for you. Maybe it works for you, but if it helps, um, [00:41:00] I know it’s helped me, um, sometimes let go of things because I will get caught in a loop and I’ve had like in the past, I really had bad anxiety and obsessing and panic attacks and so on.
And so I find that doing that helps me let it go and kind of go, Oh, okay. I’ve looked at your thoughts.
Yeah, I’m down for it.We’ll try it out. If it helps, it helps. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. I, I’m a big believer that, you know, we pick up things from many different people and if it works for us, it works for us or it doesn’t, it doesn’t.
Tina Juan: I think also, I think I’m coming from what you’re saying too. Like, it makes sense. Cause the same time, like you’re really being back. Say, thank you. for, I think that also, like, as you’re talking, I was like, just thank you for doing your best. You know, doing your best of what you could do in that moment.
Yeah,
Gissele Taraba: I love that. Yeah, saying that to yourself. Oh, that’s so beautiful. I wanted to talk about, you’ve been mentioning it a little bit. Um, and you mentioned it, uh, I think in your intro, which is [00:42:00] really about the importance of play. What role has play played really, uh, had in your life and how it has helped you sort of transform.
Tina Juan: Give me a minute because I like, it’s like, it’s just resonating really deep within me because I realized how important play is, how important it is, it is in my life because I just feel like my most authentic self as an adult, you know, it’s, I mean, there’s a difference between as when you’re playing as a kid versus playing as an adult, because, you know, we know when is the right time to play and when is not the right time to play.
And it’s so important. It’s so important for me because it exudes my energy.
Gissele Taraba: It’s
Tina Juan: hand in hand with how much energy I could play. [00:43:00] How, like, you really, like, you see me bouncing off the walls for a good 10 minutes playing and just being goofy. And also one of the things too is that I love making people laugh.
Making people feel at ease. Just like, hey, you’re allowed as an adult, you’re allowed to play. I’ll play with you if you want to, like, I’m cheering you on, I’m supporting you, let’s play, because that’s also the thing what I’ve noticed too as an adult, we forget to play, we forget to be one. But we always love doing.
I love bouncing off the walls all the time and exuding so much energy and just like, and then you know, knowing that I will come down off that ladder and just like, okay, I’m chilled out. It’s like, it’s like, one to 100 for me. But um, That’s kind of where it is for me in regards to play because I want to play as much as I can.
Like one of the things I love going to [00:44:00] is one of those, um, you know, industrial buildings. Sometimes they have like the water spouting out from the ground, like a bunch of them just, you know, for like, Art and whatever. I run, I will want to run through that and then get myself wet. Like, I don’t force put back electronics away so that it doesn’t get wet, but just go into the water and then not caring and just enjoy life.
And then, you know, because we are meant to live fully and wholeheartedly and not be very joyfully. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels I just all I want to do is just the people around me. Just, you know, Especially as adults, like, play as often as you can. Not, don’t tell anyone to tame your light, to break down your light, because It is different, like, my energy is really high, so not everyone can reach my, to my level, but like, reach to your own level of what brings you joy, [00:45:00] and play with that, play as much as you want, like, if you used to play Like you love playing in the dirt.
Go play in the dirt. Who cares? Your feet, your hands are dirty. You can wash it with soap and you’re fine. Do things or like jumping into a pool, even with your clothes on, like you saw something cool. I’m going to go jump into it. Like the pool, for example. And then, or like, like, just like letting, let yourself be free and not be so scared that, Oh, I’m an adult.
I can’t do that. Oh, what do people think of me when I do this? Just do it because. You deserve it. And you want to be happy as an adult and not like specifying like adult because we forget.
Gissele Taraba: Thank you for sharing that. Um, I really resonated with that. I, uh, I know this girl, um, she was in business class with me, so she started a play based business for adults.
Right. So she does that. Yeah. I
Tina Juan: love that.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah. Um, and so I, [00:46:00] I had booked my husband and I kind of like a play section because I wanted to do something for a date. Um, and as I was doing, as we were playing and all that stuff, I realized that I had a lot of those perfectionism in terms of like, so she, at one point she’s like, color outside the line and I’m like, , but it’s gotta look beautiful.
And then like all of those restrictions that we put on play, that it has to look perfect and it has to look right and it ha we have to color inside the line and, and all of those things that limit creativity and limit joy. And so. So thank you for reminding me of that because I see it in my kids. My kids just want to play and they’re fun and they’re not thinking this has to be perfect or this has to be a specific way.
And it’s so, so important to remind each other just to play a little more. Um, and just to let go of all those old stories about like, you were just being silly or immature. Um, and just how important it is. Enjoy. [00:47:00] Yeah.
Tina Juan: Oh, and also like, I want to emphasize, like, I really want to play with women. Yeah.
Especially women, because growing up, you know, where men are allowed to be roughhousing, give no shits, running around not caring, because they’re like, oh, they’re just boys will be boys. That’s like the old saying.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah.
Tina Juan: Yeah. Boys will be boys, but then girls are like, oh, no, you have to be
Gissele Taraba: mature, like,
Tina Juan: We’re told to grow faster. We can’t play. We can’t play in the dirt with the boys. We can’t roughhouse and be all dirty or whatever. I mean, I think nowadays, the generation now, I think it’s gotten, I’m assuming gotten better with like allowing girls to be like, do whatever they want to be.
But I think I think culture also plays a part in this too, because at least in my, in my culture, a lot of Vietnamese, I’m Vietnamese, a lot of Vietnamese women, we don’t play a lot. Like it’s frowned upon to [00:48:00] play Tina, you’re weird. Or like, Tina, you’re annoying because I’m exuding my energy in the way that I know makes me best.
And I just want to emphasize that for women’s they play as much as you want. Really don’t, don’t tame your light I don’t like, don’t play because the guys, your husband, your partners, whoever, like, they’re willing, they’re more allowed to play, like, if you want to play, go play. And I think the biggest part is that, don’t worry about what people think of you.
I think that’s, that’s, I think like, perfectionism is like, there, but I think the part of like, caring what other people think of us is so important. Why we don’t play a lot as adults.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah. Yeah. And as you were talking, I, I remembered what you had said about the sense of responsibility.
Yes.
Like women sometimes have such a huge sense of responsibility.
It’s not responsible to play, it’s not responsible to do that. So, yeah. So thank you for that. Yeah. That’s really powerful. [00:49:00] Right.
Tina Juan: Thank you.
Gissele Taraba: I wanted to ask you a couple more questions. Yeah. The first one is I’m asking everyone on my show, how do you define unconditional love?
Tina Juan: I think I think of a conditional loves like,
this is going to make a lot of people uncomfortable because I’m just refraining from my personal experience. My unconditional love is just smothering your loved ones no matter how they don’t like it. In a way, like mother,
Gissele Taraba: mother. Yeah.
Tina Juan: Yeah. I’m a smother mother. It is like, and I think I got it from my mom too.
She tends to smother us to the most like unconditional love she could give us to. So I think I learned it from her. And so it’s just like. You know, but putting that to like on top of smothering is also like give them so much so much like affirmations, give them compassion, empathy, and holding space for any [00:50:00] everyone around you.
Like, I think that’s the also the biggest part is like holding space. Yes, you can smother but then like there’s a boundary, of course, you should not. Cross all the time when they’re like, get off of me. I don’t want this anymore. Yeah,
Gissele Taraba: exactly. No, you love.
Tina Juan: Yeah. It’s like, but they’re like, you know, just holding space and just.
Gissele Taraba: Yeah. And just, yeah. And just encouraging them to play as adults, as they’re growing up and your friends and family to say, play and play Yeah. Beautiful. So my last question is, where can people find you? Where can they, where’s your website? Where can people work with you?
What are you doing? What do you want to share with the audience?
Tina Juan: Yes. So honestly, right now I have my podcast. So the Courageous Inner Beast is a place where. Women are able to share their courageous stories.
Beautiful.
Can
Gissele Taraba: you tell us just a little bit more about Um, both.
Tina Juan: [00:51:00] Yes. So, like, for the Courageous Inner Beast is just a place for women to share their courageous stories, like, unfiltered and uncensored.
Really just becoming your powerful self and then me holding space for you. Because as we were talking in this whole conversation, we don’t want you to shrink. We don’t want you to like, be small, like, you know, like, If the way you share your story is close to your heart, it’s authentic and honest, and I can feel that from you.
It’s like you’re being your true self and I want to hear more of it. And my personal, my personal curiosity will come out of it and my own reactions come out of it. And so that’s all stories. If you want to feel inspired, feeling that you want to resonate. We just go all for it, you know, cause we’re all, we’re found in like Spotify Apple full and all the little ones that you could find like iHeart, Amazon music.
You have find us all that you want to listen to stories. It’s mainly just stories as the platform, but yeah, please check it out as like, we want you to listen to it and just hear more of it.
Yeah. Oh, [00:52:00] that’s lovely. Yeah.
Thank you so much, Tina, for being with us. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Um, such a great conversation and, uh, please people go check it out and join us again for another episode of the love and compassion podcast with Giselle.
Gissele Taraba: Thank you. Bye bye. Bye, everyone. Thank you.