Ep.28 Sandi Daly – How gratidute changed my life.

Do you believe in the power of gratitude? Do you think it has the power to completely transform your life? Join us for an incredible conversation with Sandi Daly, as she shares how courage and gratitude completely transformed her life from one where she experienced domestic violence to one where she is thriving personally and professionally all in 21 days.  Do not miss this inspiring conversation. 
Transcript

Gissele: [00:00:00] Welcome to the love and compassion podcast. We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives in our world. Don’t forget to like and subscribe for more amazing content today. Our guest is Sandra daly is who is a woman who took her painful history and transformed it into a teaching tool.

Gissele: She’s the author of three books. Choose your universe, pop your paradigm and successfully mid-air Sandra’s fourth book, get a backbone will be launching in September, 2022 in it. She shares her passion for making a significant difference in the current domestic violence epidemic in the United States.

And obviously the world by helping victim survivors and perpetrators to discover the feeling of personal empowerment for themselves to know that they can make a different choice in giving them real tools that will help ’em do that. Sandra lives in Oregon and she’s a wife, a mother and grandmother.

Welcome Sandy. [00:01:00]

Sandi: Thank you.

I’m happy to be here. Yeah.

Gissele: Yeah. Thank you very much. I was wondering if you could start by telling us a little bit about yourself and how you kind of got to do this work on, gratitude.

 Sandi: where to begin. So in a very brief nutshell, I had a really traumatic childhood.

and when I was very little, what I learned about myself was that I was worthless. And ugly and nobody would ever want me and I would never amount to anything. And I was put on this earth, I was put on the planet to be abused. I just knew that about myself starting at a really young age.

Sandi: And so as I got older, I lived my whole life from that belief. I’m, I’m meant to be a victim. I’m meant to be treated badly. I didn’t know what to do if somebody was nice to me, I really didn’t know how to handle it. And so, you know, when I started to get interested in boys, I got, I always ended up hooking up with the ones who were mean to me, because

I didn’t know how to receive being treated kindly. We’ll just put it that way. I didn’t know how to do it. And so as an adult, most of my relationships, and there were a lot of them, were abusive, you know, physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually. It was just abuse. I’ve had five surgeries on my face. to try to correct.

At least some of the damage done from being punched in the left side of my face, you know, over and over again. So when I was with my last abuser, and, and this is I’m, I’m skipping, I’m skipping a lot. when I was with him, I call him Jeff in my books. So I’ll, I’ll probably just say Jeff. Yeah, that’s fine.

I, I had left him a bunch of times and he always made me believe that I had no choice, but to come back. And so the sixth time I was going back to him for the sixth time. my friend opened her home to me. And, you know, because she wanted me to be safe. She wanted me to get away from him.

I clearly didn’t know how. She was there to support me. He taught he, he did what he did and made me believe I had no choice, but to go back. And as I was leaving, as I was walking through her front door, she stopped me and she said, Sandi, get a backbone. And that was, that was the beginning. That was the beginning of me learning that I could do things a different way.

it took a few days because that really hurt my feelings, hurt my feelings when she said that. But it also got me thinking. So I went back, we, we did our honeymoon period for three days or whatever, and then he started. Getting back into his patterns of behavior. and as he did, I, I got a new thought and that was what if I’m not as weak as I think I am.

Sandi: You know, what if I’m really not as weak and worthless, as I believe, as I have always believed that I am. And I went on a journey of discovery from there, you know,the first thing I did was there was this thought that wouldn’t leave me alone. And that was, there’s gotta be a better way for me to live than this.

There’s got to be a better way for me to live than this. And there wasn’t any part of me. That actually believed that could be possible, but I made the deliberate decision to be willing to believe yeah. That that could be possible. And the more I stayed willing to believe that there could be a different way for me to live.

The more I started seeing things that I could, that I could be doing differently, ways that I could respond to him differently, you know, thoughts that I could think differently, you know, all that stuff. that’s, that’s now taught in the, whole industry of self development, but it’s a real thing.

It’s a real thing. and so I, as I, as I started doing the work on myself, things showed up and one of the things that. I just happened to tune to on television, happened on September 19th, 1999. It was a Sunday. It was 3:30 in the afternoon. I will never, forget it.  I happened to come downstairs in our apartment and I turned on the television just in time to hear this tiny little blonde woman say that we all deserve to have our dreams come true.

And if I hadn’t been doing that inner stuff for four weeks or so before this date, I wouldn’t have been able to hear, I, it, in fact, it would’ve probably made. Frustrated enough to just change the channel and say, oh my God, you know, who is this crazy person? And, and I actually did think that who is this crazy person , but I didn’t change the channel.

And she said stuff that I could hear my whole life changed from that one 90 minute program. And, her name is Mary Manin Morrissey. I don’t know if you’ve heard of her, but she wrote a book called building your field of dreams. Oh, okay. And, and this program was called, it was on Oregon, public broadcasting.

and it was part of their fundraising thing. And, and so. The,program was called building your dreams. One of the fundraising things was you can get her book. It was a $13 book. I paid $120 for that book because it was part of the fundraiser. Yeah. And I paid $10 a month for a year. for this book. That book completely changed my life.

Sandi: And, I, so I started again, long story, much shortened. I started doing the things that she teaches and is, and. There were, there were lots of different things. different tools that I used that I, that I heard from her and, and started hearing from other places as well. And that’s really what get a backbone is, has in it is a, is a bunch of the different, you know, different facets of how I was able to do that and how I’ve continued to, to use those tools, to create a better feeling life for myself whenever I’m struggling.

 so nine months after I found her on Oregon public broadcasting, I had been doing the work consistently on myself and I had become a different person and I was no longer his victim, even though he was still. Really abusive, like way more than he ever had been before, because I had been doing the work.

Sandi: So I was responding instead of reacting and he didn’t know what to do with that. So he was continually flipped out mm-hmm to at that, by the time I left, he was continually flipped out. And everybody who knew us knew that it was just a matter of time before I was gonna be dead at his hands. And so my coworkers took up a, a donation pool.

They passed the hat around for me and collected enough for me to get a ticket, a bus ticket from Portland to Phoenix, Arizona. and I would have $80 left over. So half had they collected $160. So half of it went to, so that I’m, so I spent it on, I spent half of it on a bus ticket that would get me away from Portland completely.

and I deliberately chose to go somewhere where I had never been before and where I didn’t know a soul mm-hmm because he would never have given me enough credit to think that I would do that. So he would, there’s no way he would look for me in Phoenix, unless he somehow discovered that that’s where I went.

Sandi: Oh, okay. Wow. So, so it was a two day bus ride and as I was leaving Portland, and so there I was on the bus mm-hmm knowing that I was heading for the desert and really, really angry and upset that I was feeling forced to leave my children, my hometown, I grew up here. and I was just mad and frustrated and sad and you know, and so tears were falling I was crying all the way down.

I five toward California. I cried for a long time. Mm-hmm and, and so the young lady sitting in the seat next to me, she knew I was upset. She knew what I was upset about because she heard me talking to my daughter on the phone. Cause my daughter was 17 at the time. And she was the only one I told mm-hmm I’m leaving.

I’m shutting my phone off. Don’t worry if you can’t get ahold of me. Mm-hmm and so, so this young lady in the seat next to me heard me talking to my daughter. So she knew I was running from domestic violence and she, as we were going down I5, it was, we were leaving the green behind and it was getting more and more brown mm-hmm and I was crying as I was watching the green go away.

I was bawling my eyes out. Meanwhile, young lady in the seat next to me. She was, I thought she was about 17 years old. She’s bouncing up and down in her seat, looking out the same window that I’m looking out of. And she kept saying, I can’t wait to get away from all this green. And I, I just wanted to strangle her.

I was, you know, just, you know, cuz I was so upset about having to leave home and she was like bouncing up and down with excitement about getting away from the green. I did not understand.

Gissele: And you were also going into the unknown, right? Like you didn’t know anyone, you didn’t know you were gonna meet.

very much so.

Sandi: Yeah, very so I was terrified. I was mad. I was had all this emotion stuff going on and I, I really just got me thinking that I’m looking out this window and I’m. Angry and upset about what I’m seeing. She’s looking out the same exact window and she is so happy about what she’s seeing. And I was like, oh my God, you know, light bulb moment.

Yeah. and yeah. Oh, big time, big time. And, and I mean, I had been practicing, one of the tools I had been using was when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. Yeah. And that is so it’s not really the things you’re looking at that are changing, but your experience of those things can drastically change.

If you choose to deliberately start looking at something differently from how you’ve been looking at it, your ex your whole experience will change. And so, so, you know, I, It just served to remind me of the nine months worth of work that I had been doing to change my ability to feel empowered in my life and, and all that stuff.

And, and , I had been, I had been carrying, building your field of dreams. The book I had been that book went with me everywhere and it had been, I carried that thing under my arm for a solid 18 months before I finally decided to, you know, that I could leave it somewhere and, and be okay. so for nine months I’d had that book right under my arm handy where I could, okay.

I’m struggling with something, open it at random. And I would always land on something that, that I would be able to apply. Mm-hmm to change my experience. I heard myself. Saying to myself. Oh my God. She’s seeing something very different from what I’m seeing. What if I could choose to, to see it differently?

oh yeah, that’s right. I have this book. That is my best friend that I, you know, that I, so I did that. I opened it at random and landed on the, one of the pages where, where Mary talks about gratitude. And I, oh, I wasn’t planning on crying. don’t mind me. If I start to cry,

Gissele: I cry on the podcast all the time.

Sandi: You should see the previous episode

Gissele: really seriously. I cry all the time, so please don’t hold it back.

Sandi: Don’t cry. Okay, good. So, so she was talking about gratitude and how, you know, what a powerful thing it is and it really is. And so I decided, you know, so I’m like, okay, how, how can I. How can I do this?

I feel really. Am I allowed to cuss on your podcast? Yeah. Like yourself. Okay. Because this really feels like shit and I really want it to feel better. so where can I be grateful? There was, I couldn’t find a lot to be grateful for, but one of the things that Mary mentioned, she always says this because it’s so powerful.

You can climb Mount Everest with baby steps. You just have to be willing to take the baby steps. And so I could hear her cuz I had, she actually used to have a church here. And so I went to her church a few times before I ran. And so I had heard her talk and I hadbeen studying her book and, and, and all that.

And, and so I could hear her in my mind just telling me, just start somewhere, just start, because I couldn’t think of anything to be grateful for something, something else that I learned from her from one of her church sermons. she mentioned that the apostle Paul, when he was in prison, he, something that he said was in one of his letters, was this I have learned from my experience.

That no matter what I’m experiencing, I can be grateful in it. I don’t have to be grateful for something I can just choose to be grateful in it. So that, so I, so I heard that in my mind and I could hear her say, just start somewhere, baby steps will take you up Mount Everest, if you’ll just do the work of taking the steps.

And so I started with, it was June. It was the end of June. at least it’s not raining because if it, I love the rain, but if it had been raining that day, I wouldn’t have been able to see a lot out the window. So I was able to, you know, start deliberately drinking inwhat was left of the green and the forest and the cascades and you know, all the stuff that I so appreciate about the Pacific Northwest.

So I started there and I started to relax. And Cynthia was her name in the seat next to me. Yeah. She could tell that I started to relax and she, she started a conversation with me and she was talking about her children. I thought she was like 17 years old. And she started talking about her kids and I asked her, you know, how many kids do you have?

Four . I was like, no way. There’s no way you have four kids. How old is your  oldest child? 19. What? So I’m like, okay, how old are you? I was 35 at the time. She was 38. And she told me her story about running from domestic violence when her children were little mm-hmm and she didn’t really have a place to go.

And it was a struggle and, and all that stuff. And, and I, I, I still, you know, we’re 22 years later and I still feel so blessed. That she was the person in that seat next to me. I, I don’t know how you feel about God?

Gissele: There are no accidents, Sandi. .

Sandi: There are one. Exactly. So this was a total God thing couldn’t have been anything else, because she told me about what her experience was like.

And, and I had the opportunity. I’m blessed that I even had the thought to ask the question. So you have that experience of domestic violence. You’ve been hurt by a man that you loved more than once. How can you be so happy? And she said, and, and I deliberately attribute this conversation to my choice, to start looking for ways that I could just deliberately choose to be grateful.

I said, how can you be so happy when you have that kind of history? And she said, I am this happy because I choose to be this happy that’s right. You know, total life changing statement. And so she did, she talked about gratitude. She talked about forgiveness. She talked about, it was a wonderful conversation.

 and I learned a lot from her about really the power of the, mainly those two things, gratitude and forgiveness, but also about the choice to be happy, no matter what’s going on, you know, I’m, I’m this happy because I choose to be this happy. Yeah. And I was like, well, if she can do that, why can’t I?

Sandi: Guess what I can.  so let me just clarify this. The reason this young lady was so happy about leaving all the green behind was because she grew up in LA and it’s very brown there. It’s brown in LA and the green was really just making her uncomfortable. They had been visiting her sister in Seattle or something and, and, and it’s even greener in Seattle than it is here.

so, so, you know, that’s, that was where that all was coming from. So the, when we got to LA, there was a four hour layover and I used that time to start practicing

being the version of myself that I really wanted to be. and talking to people with a smile on my face and not being afraid of every man in the place. And, you know, that makes a big difference. You know, if you can, if, if you have that kind of history and you, I made a deliberate choice to start trusting men until they gave me a reason not to mm-hmm , which I had never done before.

Sandi: I always mistrusted them. I always expected them to be jerks or abusive or whatever. and so this, that was a big change for me to give them the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. And so I knew that I was gonna be homeless when I got to Phoenix. I had a backpack and a duffle bag and $80 in my pocket. And, when I got to Phoenix, The bus station was my home for a little while.

Not for very long, but long enough for me to have the experience of,  being in an unfamiliar city. Yeah. Not having anywhere to go. Oh, and the heat, it was 60 degrees Fahrenheit here and it was 110 there

Gissele: that’s high.

Wow. Like 70 to 80 is already starting to get to like.

Sandi: Warm. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. So, yeah. Yeah. So it was a 50 degree difference in temperature. so it was total culture shock for me. And I spent  four hour layover waiting in line for my bus to Phoenix. There was a young man in line in front of me. I deliberately practiced being grateful for how nice he was, even before he proved to me that he was actually nice. And he was actually very nice.

I wish I could remember his name because he was really very nice. And, and that interaction with him sort of set a good foundation  to really get into deliberately trusting until I had a reason not to. So that was, that was, it was like 22 years. And I remember it like it was yesterday.

so I got to Phoenix and it was the middle of the night and I was scared and I was tired. I hadn’t really slept in a week. Because I spent days planning my escape that would’ve been, and I was, I was afraid to really go to sleep because I was afraid of what I might let slip. Should he wake me up in the middle of the night, which happened often.

and so I was really, and it’s really stressful to try to act normal, you know, when you’re in a situation like that, because then you start questioning what is normal. I don’t even know what normal is, you know, and, and scary. It was a very scary situation. so I was really tired by the time I got to Phoenix.

Sandi: Yeah. And I just, I deliberately because of how it felt when I deliberately chose gratitude, when the second I opened the book, I stayed in that, you know, what can I, what can I feel grateful for right now? And even if there wasn’t anything in the moment that I could be grateful for, I could always choose to feel grateful in the, whatever the moment was gifting me with.

And that was how I, I looked at it that way deliberately, you know, this, this moment is a gift, you know, what can I choose to enjoy and appreciate in this moment? Doesn’t have to be anything out there. It could be. I’m so proud of myself for getting this far. Yeah. And not breaking down and calling him. You know, I’m so proud of myself for really making this choice.

 and I’m proud of myself for deliberately trusting that I will be able to make it, you know, cuz I I was in a, in the middle of a leap of faith and when you’re in midair in a leap of faith yeah. You know, you can flail around and cause yourself a bunch of problems or you can really stand in faith and I chose faith over and over again.

Sandi: And so there I was in Phoenix, deliberately choosing gratitude. As the days progressed. And as things progressed in the way that they did it took me 21 days. It took me 21 days to go from homeless at the bus station, only having a backpack, a duffle bag and $80 in my pocket. I had no job prospects, no job, no job prospects, no place to live.

took me 21 days to go from that, to having the best job I’d ever had in my life, making more money than I’d ever made in my life. I, I had a place to live. I had money in my pockets and I had already met the man that I have now married to wow. 21 days. And I attribute a lot of that to the choice to just stay in gratitude.

Sandi: Brene brown says that  gratitude is not an attitude. It’s a practice. And I so agree with her because, you know, I can have an attitude of gratitude all day long, but if I’m not practically applying that feeling in whatever I’m experiencing, I, I don’t get the same, the same level of results, whether emotionally or situationally.

So that’s my story. , it’s a good story. I love that. It’s such a good story. I love telling that story. Thank you for listening.

Gissele: Yeah. It’s such a great story. And actually it was your story that really resonated with me in got me to pursue you, to be on the show. Cause you said so many incredible things.

And I think, you know, like your story gives hope to people that they can change their lives, that they don’t have to stay in suffering. And that really is the purpose of the podcast. My first question really is around, the concept of being willing. And this is something that we actually, that I actually talk about with the people I work with, which is, you know, if you can’t see yourself there at least be willing or be willing to be willing, right.

Mm-hmm, like as a starting point, what do you think helped you start to be willing?

Sandi: I really, really wanted a different life. I wanted to be done with a life that I felt like I was worthless and that was before I found Mary on TV, because Mary talks about that. It’s called the open moment.

That’s what, that’s what this tattoo is. Oh, om, stands for open moment for, you know, I, it, the, the, it actually says live in the O oh, it’s oh, IM right? Yeah. Yes. But I love that. But in this case, in this case, it’s the open moment I, because I, it has meant so much to me, especially after hearing her talk about it, because she shares the Nelson Mandela story where, you know, long story, I’m not gonna go,

Gissele: You can say it for the listeners.

Sandi: Yeah. Very quickly. Oh, okay. So, so Nelson Mandela had a dream. And he went about trying to realize his dream in some ways that he ended up being harshly, incarcerated, and when they sent him to, they sent him to prison for life mm-hmm . and when he, while he was in prison, he spent the first 10 years he was in prison thinking I’ll never reach my dream or the equivalent of, you know, I have this dream and now look at where I’m at.

 I’ll never have it. You know, I can never live my dream. It’ll never happen. It’ll never happen. It’ll never ha. And that was, that was the mindset that he lived in for the first 10 years that he was in prison. About 10 years in,  he had a new thought. And a new thought. If you’re willing to go, there will always create a new thing.

Sandi: And his new thought was, what if it could still happen? What if my dream could still happen? You know, how would I be, how would I be living in this moment? If I believed that my dream could still happen, what would I do? What, what action could I, so he’s contemplating this, what action could I take? You know, if I really believed that my dream could still happen and he started writing letters and you know, all that, and, and, and 12 years after that he was released.

and then I wanna say I was only a couple years later. I think he was elected president of South Africa. so it, how the question was, how does, how does a man who gets thrown in prison for trying to end apartheid go see his dream lives in prison for 27 years gets released from prison. And becomes president of South Africa. How, how do you not go after revenge and instead go for truth and reconciliation hearings.

Sandi: And he ended up with, appointing at least one of his guards in the prison to his bodyguard staff. Wow. That, I didn’t know when he was a president. I didn’t know that. Yeah. I just recently learned that it was fascinating. So anyway, so that, so that was the question. How do you go from that to instead of revenge truth and reconciliation?

Yeah. And he said, he said the, the, the man who went to prison would not have made a good president for South Africa. I had to go through that whole experience in order to become the man who could be a good president for my country. And that is huge. Wow. It’s huge. So the open moment, if you’re willing to, if you’re willing to let it really be open it that I’m talking about being willing to be willing, to be willing, you know, as, as infinite as you have to go, exactly.

It can really lead to some, some just fantastic profound found changes in your life. so I had decided in August of 1999, I don’t wanna live this way anymore. You know, what if I’m really not as weak as I think I am. I’m willing to believe that I could be strong if I was willing to no longer be a victim.

And so I’m the subtitle of the new book is there’s no such thing as victim. Yeah. Which, you know, can come across as a little abrasive, but there’s a very good reason why I’m including it in the title. Yeah. it’s a great conversation opener. Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. So, but I had to be, I had to choose to be responsible for the part that I played in that relationship.

Domestic violence relationships are a dynamic. Every relationship is a dynamic. Yeah. It’s, it’s hard

Gissele: to say, but you were both vibrationally matched, right? Exactly. In that same, that same energy and Uhhuh it’s, it’s hard to have that conversation because it can be triggering for people you’re saying, oh, you’re saying it’s my fault.

It’s not your fault, but it is partly your responsibility, right, right. For you to, to switch out of

alignment, but yeah,

Sandi: mm-hmm yeah. I have an acronym that I use for the word power because of that experience. Yeah. Personal ownership wins extraordinary results. It’s true. And I, when I, the second I started really taking ownership of who I was being in that relationship, everything changed.

Yeah. And, and it all started with that whole being willing, being willing to learn how to be a different version of myself, the version of myself that could take ownership of who I was being in that relationship was amazing. I was amazing. Leaving a domestic violence situation. Seeing yourself beyond your current circumstances takes courage. It takes faith. You talked about acts of faith, but so often our fear really holds us back. What helped you keep taking steps in

Gissele: faith?

Sandi: A quote from William Shakespeare actually, actually it was a, it was a combination of a, of a William Shakespeare quote and a Martin Luther king Jr.

Quote, William Shakespeare said our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt if I am too afraid to even give it a try. I’ve I’ve doomed myself just because I, our doubts are traders and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt. I wanted to see what was possible for me.

And, and I was willing. I decided to be, I changed myself drastically. Yeah, it took a while, but I changed myself drastically. Oh, I just remembered what I wanted to say. So, the Martin Luther king quote is the one about the, about faith. take the first step in faith. You don’t have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step.

And I was like, I was saying that out loud as I was climbing up the steps of the bus. You don’t have to see the whole staircase. Just take this step. Just take this step right here. Right now. I don’t have to see the whole staircase. I don’t have to know what’s gonna happen. I don’t have to know what’s gonna happen.

I don’t have to try to control any of it. I can just re I can be, stay present in the moment and respond in the healthiest way I can find. And that took faith as well, because I, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Abraham Hicks. Mm-hmm yeah. So something that Abe says actually quite often is make the decision and then let it be the right decision.

Yeah. And I got lots of practice doing that. Don’t second. Guess yourself? Because you will Jack up your results. Yeah. Every time. So it was just really a combination of all of this, all of this stuff. what I was gonna mention about what Nelson Mandela said about not being a good president, you know, unless he’d gone through the, by the time I left the relationship, I was, I, I had become the more empowered person in the relationship because he needed me to react in a certain way.

Yeah. In order for him to feel okay in himself, he really didn’t wanna know that he could do his life differently. He just needed me to be the victim. He needed me to play that part in order for him to feel secure. Yeah. And, and by the, the last four weeks of that relationship, He was triggered the entire time.

And I was one of the, one of the things that I had been applying and that I had been really living from, was at the beginning of this grand adventure. I tried, you know, Mary says, you gotta be clear about your dream. What’s your dream? Well, I, at the beginning thought my dream was love and a loving relationship with him.

But that would, would have required him to change change. And I spent in order for me to feel better, he would need to change. And, and at first I tried getting him to change. I tried to get him to read the book. I tried to get him to listen to me about all this juicy goodness that I was, you know, he wanted nothing to do with it.

And finally I gave up on love. Oh, in favor in favor. No, no, this is not a bad thing. It’s good. It’s good. Yeah. So in favor of peace and, one of the things that she had shared in that program was a quote from a course in miracles, which is I can choose peace instead of this, no matter what the, this is, I can choose if this, if this is making me feel.

Like I’m struggling. I can choose peace instead. I can always choose peace instead. And so that was the main thing that I was applying. That was my theme for those nine months is I’m gonna choose peace no matter, no matter how hard he hits me, no matter, no matter how awful he get, he used to, he used to say, you’re too ugly to be seen in public with me.

And I’m like, then why are we together? If you really feel that way? Why are we in this relationship? Yeah. So, so he would deliberately, he knew, he knew that I was going for peace, that, that I had decided that peace is more important to me than anything. And so he would deliberately do things to try to ruin my feeling of peace.

And I got really good. At choosing peace, no matter what he was doing. And by the last four weeks, I was to the point of saying, thank you universe for another opportunity to practice getting really good at this. And that’s so in line with what Nelson Mandela said, mm-hmm, about the man. He, he needed to go through all that stuff so that he could learn how to deliberately be a man of forgiveness and a man of gratitude and, you know, and, and become the version of himself that could have truth and  reconciliation hearings instead of throwing all of those people in prison, in jail themselves.

Yeah. So it, it just, it’s just, I recommend it, but what, you know,

what, what you said is so, so powerful, when we are in alignment, right?

Like, you know, when we are wanting to manifest our desires, for example, and we are in alignment with, you know, a joyful or loving relationship, if the people in our lives don’t choose to align, they will leave or you will leave. Right. Mm-hmm . And so obviously we have no control what other people do. We can only really control what, who we wanna be.

Right. And, and what identity we are holding or who we’re choosing to be. And then, and, and the people around us are mirrors to us. of what we’re being. And so one of the things we talk about that in, in, in our center, in, in, in the work that we do, which is not always so popular, it really is that what if our worst enemies really are our best friends, because they’re mirroring to us some of the things we just don’t wanna see about ourselves.

And that’s why I love the fact that you also work with men who do, who actually are involved with domestic violence. Because often what we do is we,villainize and we throw away the key and get rid of them, but we’re not tackling the problem, the biggest problems in terms of, you know, murders issues in terms of like even school killings and so on tends to be men white men.

And so, right, right. What is happening to these men? What is happening with these individuals that this is the only feel that this is the only way they can get security. This is the only way they feel they can achieve love.

Gissele: What are your thoughts?

 I think it’s, I really, I think it’s a cultural downward spiral that, you know, you were talking earlier about.

actually I think we both were coming at it from a different, from different angles, but domestic violence is a dynamic. It’s a pattern. And as long as I stayed in the boundaries of that pattern, nothing could change. I had to disrupt the vibration of that pattern and the domestic violence dynamic changed automatically as I changed I really believe at least until.

Sandi: Somebody like me is able to, to do a significant amount of work with perpetrators that, that domestic violence relationship can only ever be changed from the victim side. When the victim decides I’m not gonna be a victim anymore and then starts doing some sort of work, like what I did, doesn’t have to be exactly the same thing I did.

I think there are many different ways to get there, but the choice has to be made first. I’m done, I’m done living my life as a victim. How can I start doing my life differently? You don’t have to leave the relationship. I mean, the bravest thing I ever did was stay in that relationship and do the work on myself rather than because the most dangerous time for a victim is when the victim is trying to leave when they leave.

Yeah. So, so I stayed. Hmm. And I stayed deliberately because I wanted to do the work on myself and it was, you know, and now I, so in Arizona, I got there June of 2000, 2003. I became a speaker for the Arizona coalition against domestic violence. And, and I created a workshop that I taught in shelters around, around the state.

that was 2003, 2005. I was invited to be a speaker in the prisons, and that walking into a prison and sharing my story with the inmates is hands down. The most fulfilling thing I have ever done in my whole entire life. You know, where I was going in as a, as a part of a program called the impact of crime on victims class, they don’t offer it anymore, which really bums me out, but it was really wonderful.

Sandi: I did it for two and a half years traveled the state of Arizona. it was a 10 week class that covered nine different crimes. And it was for those inmates who had reached a point in their life experience in which some sort of light bulb had gone, had, had lit up and they started realizing, wait, what if it’s the choices that I’m making?

That’s creating this experience of my life. What if it’s my choices rather than whatever’s going on out there. That makes me feel like a victim of circumstance and I, you. You know? so the, so these were men, I went into the women’s prison once as the IC VC speaker. but mainly so mainly it was the men that I was talking to.

they wanted to know how, how did the crime that I committed or crimes affect the victim and the victim’s family. So it was a 10 week class covered nine different crimes, week seven was domestic violence. And so I would go into the prison and I would share with them, this is what it feels like. This is what it’s like, and this is how it feels to live as a victim of domestic violence.

Sandi: And I would share for, you know, 10 or 15 minutes, not very long. And then I would open it up to questions. And, and then we would have a 90 minute conversation and they asked some of the most perceptive, wonderful questions because they really wanted to know because they really wanted to hear my answers.

they were all very considerate. Nobody ever disrespected me, nobody ever was mean or any, I never had a bad experience. I would, I would love to get back into the prisons.

but the conversations always turned to how were you able to change your life? And then I got to talk about gratitude and faith and forgiveness. And, and especially forgiving yourself how important that is.oh, I just gave myself goosebumps. just remembering God, cuz I could remember some of the conversations that happened as a result of them asking that question and me saying that about, you know, being grateful in the moment and, and being able to forgive yourself and just really powerful stuff.

Sandi: And they’re the ones that actually asked me to write my first book because they were like, please write this stuff down for us, you know, we need it. And so that’s, that’s what choose your universe was written for. wow. But, it was, it’s just,

Gissele: I have a friend who does compassion work in, in the prison system.

and one of the things that she talked about was is that the prison system just doesn’t work because, you know, you’re sending people you’re isolating and separating them and you’re sending them into an environment with where people have the same energies, the same trauma, the same beliefs and, and then you expect them to sort of be turn out to be these compassionate, loving, you know, reformed people.

so I love that you were able to go and share your story and, and to write this book, whereas, which is so impactful.

yeah, my, my current dream is to. create and present in a, in an impactful way, a reentry program, because you know, the, the stuff that I’m teaching has the potential, you know, if I was to walk into a prison and say, get a backbone, change the way you, you know, when you change the way you’re looking at this and things will change it.

 you know, it might end up getting people killed, you know? but as a reentry program, there’s so much power in this material as a reentry program, you know, you don’t have to come out of prison and go straight back into, into living your life the way you were when you landed yourself in prison, you can do things differently.

Sandi: And I am living proof of that. So, you know, that’s, that’s my dream. that’s a great dream. Yeah, it is. How’s that dream for you. thank

Gissele: you. Um,the, so the beginning of your story really was one about, experiencing obviously various forms of child abuse mm-hmm . and one of the things that we find, and we focus on teaching is, is self love and self-compassion, and really trying to focus on the whole concept of loving ourselves and lo understanding that we are enough so that we don’t know.

So we don’t have those feelings of worthlessness and so on because I, from our perspective, a lot of the, the, the child abuse and all that, all the domestic it’s because we don’t feel worthy because we don’t feel loved because we don’t feel lovable. so I was wondering what your thoughts on that one,

that what you just described is still even 20, 22 years later, it’s still my default.

Sandi: That is still, you know, I have, I have come to appreciate that, you know, my default is one in which I feel unworthy and invisible often and, you know, like, like nobody will ever want what I have to offer and you know, which is so not true. No, it’s so not true. So what I’ve come to appreciate about recognizing that as my default.

and, and I just heard, are you familiar with Ed Mylett?

Sandi: He’s wonderful. and I just heard him talking about this the other day. He’s very successful motivational dude.  he’s a motivational guy who’s who has a lot of really good stuff to say.

And he was just saying, I just heard him say this the other day that his default is even after however many years of doing this work is still I’m little. I, I have no reason to, to be self confident because what is there to be confident about? And, and it it’s. So just made me feel better. to hear him say that, because I’ve recently come to just accept that it’s still gonna come up.

It’s still gonna, I keep thinking I’ve gotten rid of all that stuff and it’s still comes up and, and what a gift. What a gift that I can recognize it, something to be grateful for. I can recognize it when it’s happening and I can deliberately choose to diffuse it. Mm-hmm or I can let it take over my life for, you know, because, you know, we all need a dark night of the soul every once in a while.

Right. and, and, you know, I, it happens it sometimes I will get into that funk for like a long time. I came very close to committing suicide in 2016, December of 2016. And on the other side of that was, I mean, it was a miserable. Two, almost three years miserable. I forgot everything that you and I are talking about today.

I forgot all of it. And I was just, every time I looked in the mirror, I would say, why the hell are you still here? You know, why don’t you just end it? And, and I’m glad I didn’t. I’m glad I didn’t because, because I love how the universe works. I believe. Have you ever heard, I know you have, have you ever heard anybody say that everything happens for a reason?

Did you know there’s a second half to that sentence? There is, it really is. Everything happens for a reason and that reason is always for us in our forward movement. Even the stuff that feels like shit, especially the stuff in my, my experience. It’s the stuff that feels terrible and painful and awful.

That helps me grow the most when it’s time, you know, it’s, I mean, there’s so many different ways I could go with this conversation, but that, that is so to answer your question, I think that everything happens for a reason. And that reason is always meant to serve and support us in our forward movement.

And that includes criminals in prison. Having that experience, the second they figure out that there’s something bigger

that their life is rooted in. That can help them to have a different experience. They will start having a different experience. And a lot of them do a lot of them do. I mean, the number there was, there was a mile long waiting list for the, for the impact of crime on victims class. There were so many people who wanted to be allowed into that class.

And there just weren’t enough, enough of us doing who were traveling around, bringing this, bring it back, Sandy, we’ll bring in this back. Oh, I would love to, I don’t know, gonna bring this back right. Or some version, some version of it because yeah. You know, it was, that was, that made me feel better about that class than anything else.

What, well, I guess I can’t really say that, but it really did make me feel really good about that class. Knowing how long the waiting list was. And I feel so bad for all the, for all the people who didn’t, who weren’t able to get in and take it before they ended it. Yeah. yeah, but still, but it is what it is and everything happens, you know?

It all happens for a reason. Yeah, for sure.

Gissele: It’s interesting that you mentioned, you know, because one of the things we talk about at Maitri Centre is our definition of compassion is very different than other people’s really, it really starts with allowing all things to be understanding that there’s actually no good or bad is just our perception of it.

And once we open up ourselves to the allowances piece, it really does open up our perspective, which is why, you know, some of the work we focus on is, is in how do you love those people? You consider your enemies, how do you find? And, and sometimes you can’t, but allow other people to love them, allow other people to get curious about them.

How do we come? Kind of come closer together, knowing. At the core, we are loving and compassionate at the core. We are, you know, like wonderful beings and all we’ve forgotten all of these things. And, and I think that’s so that’s, I think that’s what I got from your comment before, which is like, there’s a gift in these people going to jail.

There’s a gift in Nelson Mandela. There’s a gift in all the things that we, although sometimes they feel really crappy.

Sandi: yeah. And sometimes, you know, it’s traumatic and ugly and awful and, you know, and, and yet I’m

a big fan of radical non-resistance and non-attachment yeah, I’m a big fan of that. Just radically not non-attachment non-resistance letting whatever happens be okay. Is a, is a such a powerful place to stand. Because you don’t get knocked off balance. You can, you can choose to stand anchored for me. I stand anchored in faith, in the divine and from there, as long as I stay present, I can choose how I want to respond to what’s going on.

Or even if I want to respond to what’s going on, you know, you don’t always have to engage. Yeah. You don’t always have to engage. That was a big lesson for me. Mm-hmm but yeah, I’m, I love, I love your definition of, of compassion, you know, it’s and, and letting whatever happens be okay.

Gissele: along a little bit, so one of the things I I’ll go back to the concept of courage, cuz you have to have had such extraordinary courage.

Even when things, when you knew, when you had adopted a new identity, you were, I am no longer the victim of this person. I’m no longer a victim of the circumstance in those four weeks, when things amped up, you held steady. And, and so for all those people that are wanting to adopt a new identity, but they can’t, they’re finding a hard time holding steady.

What helped you keep steady

so first I think it was Maxwell. Maltz said you can never outperform your own self image.

Sandi: and I find that to be a really powerful statement. I mean, I didn’t hear it until 15 years later, but, but that’s really what I did. I, I asked myself that question. What if I’m not as weak as I think I am? What if I’m really not as weak as I think I am. And, and then, you know, the honeymoon honeymoon phase was over and I found myself.

In the corner with him hitting me, trying to hit me in the face. And I was like this, trying to protect my face. And, and I heard my friend’s voice in my head say, get a backbone. And then I heard my own, I don’t know, inner being my soul, whatever, whatever it was that was ready for me to break free of, of the boundary that I had kept myself in my whole life in an attempt never to get hurt, which always got me hurt.

Yes. I heard that voice. I call it in successfully midair. I call it the voice that loves me. so I heard that voice loud and clear, you know, he was yelling and hitting and punching and, and I was in backed into the corner and I heard that voice, the voice that loves me. Thank you. Say. Stand up straight.

And I did, I felt myself stand up straight while he was doing that. And he felt it too. And that was powerful because I could tell, I mean, it wasn’t, there wasn’t a huge difference in my posture, but I don’t really have the words to describe how it felt. I, I stood up straight inside my own self inside my own self image.

That’s probably a good way to say it. Yeah. You know, maybe what if I’m not as weak as I think I am well, stand up straight. If you, if you want to be a different. Version of yourself. You have to be willing to start right here right now and right here and right now, and the next right here, and right now being the version of yourself that you would like to be.

And that was really what that nine months was about. It was about, I didn’t have a good visual cuz I didn’t know how to think big and I, and I’ve always been so grateful for that because I didn’t, I didn’t have a set in stone. This is what I want my life to be like visual. When I was climbing up the steps of the bus and if I had and if I had it wouldn’t have been nearly as big of a life as the one I landed in.

If, if I had had something that I was actually working toward, besides, besides just doing the inner work and becoming the version of myself that I just wanted to learn how to live happy. That was really what I wanted. I really, and I said that I can remember saying that to myself. I just wanna learn how to live happy.

And then there’s the young lady next to me on and saying, I am this happy because I choose to be this happy. Oh, well maybe, maybe it’s as simple as that. And, and then I started putting on the mind of, you know, I, I lived in the question for some time, if I knew how to live happy, how would I be doing this?

 So I found Mary on TV that day.

Sandi: I heard her say. we all deserve to have our dreams come true. I thought she was nuts but I couldn’t change the channel. And she said so many things that really caught my attention. And one of those things was I can choose peace instead of this. and so I started applying that I wanted peace. I wanted peace.

I wanted love gave up on love, cuz that clearly wasn’t gonna happen. So I decided to go for peace. And, and so I, I, one of the things that she said was if you continue down the road, you’re on, you’re gonna end up where you’re headed. And that is what really made me sit up straight. When she said that was at the very beginning of the program.

If you continue down the road, you’re on, you’re gonna end up where you’re headed and. I was like, oh my God, I could clearly see where I was headed. I am going to die at the hands of a man who constantly and repeatedly tells me that he loves me. I’m gonna die at his hands if I don’t start changing, you know?

And then I was like, yeah, but I’m such a victim. It’s too bad. I’m gonna die this way. You know, basically mm-hmm , there was more to it than that, but that was the inner dialogue was basically boils down to that. It’s too bad. I’m gonna die this way. And then, so I had this whole little conversation go on in the half a second between, so she said, if you continue down the road, you’re on, you’re gonna end up where you’re headed.

Then she did this and, and I could see it. She gave me such a great visual. She said, if you’re going down the road and you see that you don’t like where you’re headed, just make a little shift in direction and a mile down the road, you’re in a whole new place. And I went, oh my God, I can do that. I can make, because I had tried doing U-turns hello.

I had left him six times and every time I went back, it was worse. And so U-turns don’t work. They’re just gonna get me killed was, was part of the inner dialogue. Yeah. And, and then she did that, just a little shift in direction, 10 degrees, one degree. I mean, I’m quoting her verbatim because it was so powerful for me, just a little shift in direction, a mile down the road, you’re in a whole new place.

And I’m like, I can do that. So I decided my shift in direction is gonna be peace. I can choose peace instead of this, that I’m gonna, I’m gonna choose peace. And I was very full of myself. about that. I’m gonna choose peace no matter what he does, I’m just gonna choose peace. And, and I was very cocky about this and, and I was really in it until he triggered me, you know, he started pushing my buttons cuz he knew how he knew how to push my buttons and, and then my buttons were pushed and I had no control.

There’s no such thing as choosing peace when you have no control because you’re completely triggered. Yeah. And so this, the six hour altercation would happen and I would be bleeding or whatever. And two hours after that, I would remember I was gonna choose peace. I was gonna choose peace and I freaking forgot.

I really am a piece of shit. I really am worthless. I really can’t do this. And, and I did that. I did it that way for like two weeks. I was that’s. That was the cycle for me for a couple of weeks solid until one day I realized, hello, I can choose peace instead of this. Yeah. I can choose peace instead of what I’m doing to myself right now.

And, and so I started doing it that way. So I’m gonna choose peace. That’s how I’m gonna shift my direction. The altercation happens. I would forget. I, and then afterward. My mind would try to take me to, I really am a piece of crap because I can’t even, you can’t even choose peace. What, what makes you think you’re gonna be successful at that?

No, no, no. I can choose peace instead of you. I don’t have to listen to you. Yeah. And, and then, and then I would get to the point where, you know, we, it would still average time was six hours for these stupid altercations. so right at the end of the altercation, I would go, oh yeah, I can choose peace. I, I don’t have to engage anymore.

I can choose peace instead of this. And, and then it got to where at the four hour mark, oh, wait a minute. I can choose peace. Instead of this, I started seeing myself as a woman who knew how to choose peace in the midst of whatever was going on. And by the, by the time I left, he couldn’t trigger. Because I am something I realized because I used to used to say it all the time.

He knows how to push my buttons. He knows how to push my buttons and make me freak out. And then I feel like I’m the horrible person, you know? And wait a minute, it’s my buttons that he’s pushing. What if I just break my buttons? What if I just, if there’s nothing to push, take a hammer to. So I took a hammer to my buttons in my imagination.

It was very fun. I recommend it. I did it, and I I’m a very visual person, so I could see it. I took a hammer to all of my buttons so that the deactivated them, they didn’t have any power anymore. And so he would be, you know, poking, stabbing at my buttons, trying to get me to react. And I’m like, Nope. You know why?

Cause I can choose peace instead of this. And I, I just really got into, I put on the energy of the version of myself who could choose peace and who really was serious about getting a mile down the road so that I could be in a whole new place. It was amazing. It was a spectacular experience. Wow.

it also goes to show the, the power of, you know, being loving and compassionate to yourself during that, like while you are in that moment and you, when you made mistakes in the beginning, you were really harsh when yourself and then afterwards you’re like, Hey, wait a minute.

Gissele: have to choose this, which is, is so amazing. I also did want to, to make a comment about since you like Abraham Hicks. So do I. And one of the things Abraham says, is that manifestation actually doesn’t take that long. Like from the time that we set the intention to the manifestation. So the 21 days where you experience homelessness in difficult times to you having a job and a relationship and all those things, is actually like, you know, something that we can all achieve.

But the problem is we get in our, we get in the way, right? We ask, how, when is this gonna happen? How is this gonna happen? And you know, all of these things and we delay delay

Sandi: are good. Right? And in that, in that situation, I wasn’t, I was really serious about just doing this moment and letting this moment be whatever it is.

And then, and then responding in that moment. And I mean, I ended up, I ended up connecting with my friend, Kim, who was still my friend, The very next day after I got off the bus the very next day. Yeah. I connected with her. I, I still a very long story. I, I ended up connecting with her and she and her family, she was like, oh my God, let’s get you away from the bus station.

And they rented a room for me so that I could breathe. She also was a, a, a member of Mary Morrisey’s church. And that’s how, you know, I CA I called the, the 800 number at the back of the book. Mm-hmm and it, and it, anyway, there’s so much to this story. It would take a very long time to tell the whole, the whole story, but, you know, I’m still friends with Kim and she was an angel and her family, you know, I, they put me up for, for three days, just three days in a, in a motel near her house.

and, and I, I, I took everything as it came and I did it all. I didn’t you’re right. I didn’t get in my own way. And the 21 days was a matter of, of me being a vibrational match to what the universe had in mind for me. So I didn’t, I didn’t have to, I didn’t have to do any vision boards I didn’t have. And I find that manifestation works best for me that way some people really get into the vision board stuff and, and, and think, and they’re able to align with what they’re going for me.

Sandi: I find that I get in my own way when I try to do it that way. I hear you. I have a much easier time of it if I don’t have anything, except for very broadly specific in mind. And then that leaves plenty of leeway for the universe to just let it, you know, if I can just receive it. However, the universe thinks that it can use me the most effectively, and joyfully and, and all of that, then I’m good with whatever results I end up living.

Did that make sense? That yes, absolutely. The first time I’ve ever articulated it that way.

Gissele: I thought you did a fantastic job in terms of articulating it. because I think that has been my experience as well. Like when I, when I have very set ideas of what I wanna manifest, I can manifest them.

First of all, they’re a lot more challenging. Mm-hmm if you start to do it that way. but when I I’ll open myself up and, and, you know, tap into the joy and release the resistance and really open myself up to the potentialities and then let it go and move on with whatever else I’m doing, right. It just, it comes out.

I mean, amazingly, I would never have thought about doing a podcast ever, ever, ever, ever, but some of the people have managed to meet like you in your extraordinary story. It gives me and my listeners such joy and hope in, in, you know, like it’s, it’s extraordinary. And I wouldn’t have been able to, to share this with my listeners, if I hadn’t been open to the experience of, of manifestation in that way, because I had a very set idea of what I thought I should be doing.

And now that I am open to let’s see what, what, what’s my real, what’s my, the biggest dream that the universe or source has for this particular lifetime.

 Use me. Use me in the way that you have in mind for me. So how I can, I, I’m gonna be the interviewer for a minute.

Sandi: So when you find that you’ve gotten in your own way, how often do you find, or do you come to the conclusion that that was actually necessary to get you into the next yeah. The, the next iteration or the next bigger version of yes. Of what you feel like has in mind

Gissele: so often? Yes. sometimes not in the moment.

and the one thing I’m also playing with, because we also, like, I’m a big believer in God, you know, source universe, energy. and from our perspective, we believe everything is source. Right. So it really is about seeing the divinity in everything. So every, nothing is inherently bad, but we have kind of made all of these ideas about this is bad.

Gissele: This is good. This, I don’t want this. I, I do want, and so it really is about stepping into my understanding that everything is the divinity working through. And I can always choose, like you said, to take that little angle out. but sometimes I, like you said, have that experience about like my default setting has historically had been about the need to control and the need to see things as a negative.

Like, oh, if I let go, then the other shoe will fall off. For example. Right. Because I grew up with a mother who was extremely traumatized. So that was her experience. Her experience was when things started to get good, then the shit hit the fan, something really bad happened. And so you constantly live in

And that’s what you teach your children because you don’t want them to suffer. Mm-hmm . but now I’m finding that same ex that same experience that you were mentioning, which is okay, where’s the gift in this moment and how is this gonna get me to the next level? but yeah, but it, it could feel a little bit icky at times.

you know what?

Sandi: Oh yes. Oh yes. Oh yeah. It can feel really icky sometimes. Yeah. But, I’ve, I, I think that there’s no such thing as a blessing in disguise and everything is a blessing. And,I used to, I used to teach a little thing called, How to find the blessing in the bullshit and because it always is there there’s always a, no matter how painful it is and someone who doesn’t have experience with doing this kind with actually working on their, their own inner experience of things will argue with me until they’re blue in the face.

but I really, really firmly believe that there isn’t anything that isn’t a blessing and, and when I can stay, can re really remember that for myself, then the struggle with what doesn’t feel very good. It doesn’t last nearly as long because I’m not resisting it. So I’m not making it drag out. So yeah, the

Gissele: suffering is in the resistance, right?

Like for sure. Mm-hmm so to what, what I was saying earlier about believing everything is God, but, you know, It also includes ourselves. One of the things we’re toying with is the embodied mastery is like really, how can we really step into our own divinity and be able to live from that place? but sometimes you get caught by the circumstances, right?

And so one of the things I love about your story is the fact that you were able to see beyond the circumstances you are facing in that moment. and still hold in your mastery of your I’m peace. I’m choosing to be peace, peace above anything else. Yeah. Which is

Sandi: so, so powerful. Yep. Peace begins with me and I can choose peace no matter what is going on, which is very easy to say.

Yes, it’s really easy to say,

Gissele: but yeah, but you know what? You, your story shows that we can do it. Right.

Sandi: That’s one of the reasons, thank you again for having me on, because it really is such a powerful story that can help so many people, people can be helped. I mean, and even when I was doing the prison thing, somebody asked me, why do you do that?

Because you know, a lot of my people thought I was nuts because why would you wanna put yourself in danger? You know, people asked me, I used to ride a Harley as well. And, and same question. Why would you put yourself in danger? Well, for the joy of it, For the joy of it. my bike was very good to me and I loved it and I miss it, as was going into the prisons.

It was good for me. It was so, but some, I I’ll never forget. Somebody asked me that, why are you doing this? Because it seems crazy to me. And my response was, if I say one thing that helps one of those people make one different choice, then the whole world has become a better place. And I really do, you know, and that answer came.

I, I, that was not a well thought out answer. That was not, that came from the universe as a, you know, because I do believe. It’s all vibrational. It’s all, God, it’s all good. Everything affects everything else. Whether, whether people want to believe that or not. and so if, if I say one thing that helps one of those inmates make one different choice, it’s gonna affect their family.

It’s gonna affect their fellow inmates. It’s go. And it may just be a minuscule. just a very minuscule thing, but still it ripples out. And when it ripples out, it gets bigger. So, you know, why not? Why not go in there and do that because I know it made a huge, positive difference in a lot of people’s lives.

What a perfect wait for us. I, I do have one more question. your journey towards healing really begin with the potentiality of opening up yourself to one thought what if it could be different? And so, and I think that really is extraordinary. my last question is how do people contact you?

Gissele: How can they find you? What’s your website? What are you working on? Please share with the audience

Sandi: I’m, I’m working on finishing the book. And I just, I, I just fired up, my new website, which is SandraDaly.com, D a L Y SandraDaly.com or you, or choose your universe.com. That’ll get you there too. Yeah.

And my books are available there they’re actually pop your paradigm is available for free. There it’s a, just a PDF download. If you’d like to read it. It’s a wonderful book. and all of my social media links are there. That’s probably the, the best way to, to get to the social media cuz I’m just I’m.

Sandi: I am a, I have a full time job in which I work sometimes upward of 70 hours a week. I know, I know I’m a drafter for a structural engineer. and I have, I have huge projects that take lots of hours of work. So I’m finally to the point in some of my projects where I actually have time to do what’s in my heart.

So I’m just getting started. I just uploaded my first YouTube video for the, get a backbone work, which I tickled about. I, I would love it if people would go and subscribe and you know, all that wonderful stuff. what was the link to the transcripts? Okay. yeah, I have some, I have some big ideas for stuff in the works inspired ideas, you know, so, so I’m tickled about that, but sandradaly.com is the best place to find me.

Gissele: Thank you so much, Sandy, for coming on the show and sharing your extraordinary story. I know it’s been inspirational for me and I know it will be for our listeners. And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the Love and Compassion podcast with Gissele, see you soon.

Sandi: Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me.

(c) Music: Mission Ready by Ketsa, 2019. No changes made. https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Ketsa/Raising_Frequecy/Mission_Ready

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